House Breaking an older pup

    • Bronze

    House Breaking an older pup

     I have an almost 9 month old Maltese, she has only been with me for about 7 weeks.  I aquired her from a breeder who was holding her back as a show prospect but decided to let her go.

     

    Apparently I did not ask enough questions.  This breeder is an exceptionally well though of breeder, her dogs win at Westminster and other Major shows, she currently has the #1 dog in the country.  I say that not to brag but to explain why I had certain expectations of this dog.    The breeder stated she was pad trained and at that age I expected her to be pretty consistent. 

     

    Well she arrived not knowing the difference between a piddle pad, a throw rug of an pile of laundry next to the washing machine.  So I decided to housebreak her to the outside since it was obvious that we needed to start from scratch.

     

    We have been following all the "conventional wisdom" RELIGIOUSLY: crating her, taking her to one potty spot, standing with her on a leash and giving the potty command, TREATING TREATING TREATING, no unsupervised time and a strict regimen of eating playing and pottying.   We have done well but only because I haven't let up for a moment.  But it is very clear that I'm the one who is trained not her, our low accident rate is due soley to lack of opportunity.  The moment I let down my guard she pees in the house or worse on my bed (yes I occasionally let her up on the bed). 

     

    I am so frustrated I am ready to SCREAM.  One of the "selling points" of this dog was that supposedly at almost 7 months she was trainable and ready to learn.  I am afraid I have missed the training window and she will never be housebroken.  

     

    She additionally is very poorly socialized, in another thread I discussed the issues of her growling at my husband-which continues to this day despite doing all we can to get her comfortable with her.  She arrived not knowing what a leash was, we have made inroads on that but I wouldn't call her leash trained.    I tried to get into our local obedience class but unfortunately they are all full so will have to wait til summer.  

     

    I am feeling like a total failure.  This is not my first dog, I have two others who were easy to house train and follow commands without a problem.  

     

    Is a nine month od dog too old to learn?? 

    • Gold Top Dog

     Absolutely NOT. No dog is too old to learn, period. Any animal that has a brain (goldfish included! There was a Mythbusters episode about that, and about old dogs, LOL) can learn.

     

    You're doing it right, and toy sized dogs often are NOT housetrained at her age (mine weren't). Just keep it up, be very consistent, and keep watching her. She will catch on, eventually.

    • Gold Top Dog

    She probably went to the pee pad in her kennel run -- or in a house with all wood floors and NOTHING fabric on the floor at all.  She now she's gravitating to anything absorbent -- and that's not uncommon.

    Don't feel a failure -- she's just a baby who needs consistency and attention (and as a show dog she got certain *kinds* of attention but not necessarily productive attention from people who matter!!)

    A lot of small dogs (pugs included *sigh* look at MY signature) tend to be puppies a LONG time.  It can take a long, long time to housetrain them and even longer for them to be really reliable.

    Now -- I'm going to tell you something different than some on here.  I **never** treat for housetraining.  Because I've had it backfire too much -- "OH... I get a treat for THAT??? HERE I can do that right HERE!! Treat please???"

    Instead I make it almost a religion to watch the dog constantly.  I don't schedule (it usually doesn't work for me) -- but rather I watch the dog for signs that she's gotta "go" -- sniffing, circling, investigating new places or trying to ditch me (so the dog can go "n peace" somewhere I'm not!!)

    Any sign that the dog is "looking" (or if it's an appropriate time -- like after sleeping, after eating, after drinking, after any "break" in the natural continuity of things) out we go on leash.  But then I do ALL the positive reinforcement with my face, my voice, my body language and PLAY -- I don't let them "play" while we're out for a potty break -- but pee for me and THEN you get to play and I'll produce the toy to do that with!!!

    Also when on leash outside (and it is NOT uncommon at all for a small dog to not be leashed trained -- unfortunately too many people think taking a small dog means a purse or carrying them -- SHEESH!!!) and the dog happens to go -- you also praise and play and generally have a "party".

    Do watch it tho -- don't just go inside after they pee/poop.  And don't turn around and go home on a walk either -- if you do that then they definitely will "put off" going!!

    I do also take the towels I use to clean up waste and go put them out IN the yard where I want the dog to go.  Then I go get the dog on leash -- let them sniff where they went and say "Nope, not there!" and then take them directly to the towel and say "OUT here! Yes, that's yours!!"

    Do they understand all the worlds? Nope ... not at first.  But they will eventually. 

    But be patient.  You can begin elementary obedience at home.  Teaching "sit".  Teaching "come" (use a long leash -- you can do it even in the house by using a piece of ribbon!!)

    Does your town have a dog training club?  That can sometimes open up training opportunities. 

    The big deal is teaching this dog to WANT to please you.  This dog has likely simply been one of many ... so putting this dog in the position to be rewarded for pleasing you ... that's a big deal.  And it's tougher on you -- because you have to set everything up so microscopically -- but you WILL succeed!!

    Maltese are not renown for being easy to train.  But they aren't stupid ... but the whole concept of a person *talking* to her and gee, you mean I"m s'posed to DO soemthing?"  That may be a whole different deal.

    When we took Luna she was 9 months old -- and the woman who had her really never had trained her at all.  She grew up in doggie daycare -- so with other DOGS she was social as heck (she still "plays with others" better than any dog I've ever had).  But with humans??? sheesh -- NOT so much!! 

    It took me months to really get it thru to her that YES -- I spoke TO **YOU** and you need to DO something!!  When I talk to you I *expect* something. 

    She's a VERY bright dog -- but that fact that she was essentially completely untrained by human hands prior to us getting her at 9 months old was a HUGE challenge.  She requires a very consistent hand, even today (years later) and she and my husband work VERY well together).

    A couple of suggestions:

    1.  Have your husband feed this little one.  Having food come from his hands may be a big deal.  Particularly if he will take the time and use a few pieces of kibble to ask for a "sit" (and maybe teach 'stand' and then 'sit' again) so she can discover that those huge hands of his that smell so different are GOOD things.

    2.  The dog likely hasn't heard male voices ... and it IS different.  His height may also be a big deal -- you might have him lie on the floor near her.  Just with some high value treats in his hand.  Something really yummy -- and maybe something ONLY **he** gives her.  But yep -- come near me and you'll get something good.   Don't require 'touching' at first -- just "near".  Or even tossing them at her -- but tossing them less far each time.

    3.  Another awesome game -- I do this with **every** newbie at my house.  It can accomplish MANY things.  And I would tell **both** of you to do this -- at different times, in different places -- in the house, all times of the day, outside the house -- EVERYWHERE. 

    Start sitting on the floor in front of the dog cross-legged.  have some SUPER high value treats for this to start (the BEST to start with).

    Hold one in each fist.  Place your fists on your knees.  Call the dog in front of you (don't require a sit or anything just "presence";).  Then with a very soft non-authoritative voice say the dog's name.

    The **INSTANT** you get even the flicker of an eye at you offer the treat (and getting it IN the mouth is a plus). 

    Look away for a few seconds.  Then once again -- just say the dog's name. 

    Again the **instant** you get a look give the treat. 

     

    The goal is you want this dog to think that it's name on your lips is THE BEST THING ***EVER***. 

    Make this game a focus for weeks.  And modify it constantly.  At first you're on the floor in the famaily room.  Next sit on the sofa and do it.  Then take it to the kitchen.  The hall outside the bedroom ... OUTSIDE --

    Make your position less formal --- do it eventually while standing.  While the dog is FAR away from you (toss the treat TO the dog JUST for looking at you).

    In other words -- you're teaching this dog that it's NAME on your lips (and your husband's lips) is just the greatest thing ever. 

    Make SURE when you are dealing with accidents, you don't just say the dogs name in a disapproving tone. 

    Now "Tink, nope not here!" is fine.  But not just "TINK!!!"  (and it's SO easy to do -- even 2 years later my husband and I both catch ourselves doing it).

    This does many things.  It sets the stage for obedience -- because getting a dog's **attention** is a big fat frigging deal.  You can't teach them diddly squat if you can't GET **and hold** their attention.

    But it also gets their attention in a multitude of places.  You can't just teach a dog to "sit" before you put it's bowl down.  The word "sit" then means "food".  You have to teach commands in all different rooms, inside and outside .... even with you standing ... and sitting ....

    One of the most difficult things in training is that dogs are extremely "spatially" oriented.  They may do that down-stay PERFECTLY in your livingroom at home - but they get to obedience class and you'd think they'd never heard of it.  That's because they identify a thing with a particular time and place.

    That's also part of what makes house-training so difficult.  Because it's a VERY broad concept we want to teach. 

    We don't just want them to "do" a particular behavior.  We want that behavior done at a particular time -- and n a particular spot. 

    Maybe not just 'Outside' -- but outside on GRASS not under the carport or on the patio or deck. 

    Given that they have no language skills like ours (and this baby is probably missing them all together) it takes time.  And patience. 

    It sounds SO easy -- that taking a dog that is a retired show dog and making it into a house pet?  whoa -- NOT so easy.  Not easy at all.

    Oh and btw -- before you freak out totally -- go to the vet and have the vet test her urine.  She's about to sexually mature, AND she's in a different place with a different schedule and different food and rules.  She could have a UTI and no one may ever know it.  She could have had one for months and when you're merely part of an "army' in a kennel, it can completely be ignored.

    • Bronze

    Thank you.  All good stuff. A bit confusing though since some contradicts what I have already been told to do. 

     

    I do treat, treat treat for every potty act.  Don't think I have seen her pottin in the house for a treat (it's usually when I'm not looking).  And I do bring her inside immediately....... never thought about her prolonging the trip to stay out.  The problem would be that we go outside about every two hours, staying outside could be very time consuming.

     

    We have already been implementing many of your suggestions as far as DH is concerned.  ALL food comes from him and he is working on treats, she will now take  treat from his had which is a plus.   She definately is afraid of his voice, she flinches when he speaks.  We are making very slow progress. 

     

    Will definately use the sitting game, great idea.    She has actually done very well with the "come" command, she is definately food oriented and know Sophie come means a treat is ready and waiting.  

     Thank you for your very informative answer.  I'll read it through again later.

    We have a Vet apt today, recheck after spay.  I'll talk urine with her.

    • Gold Top Dog

    male and female speech is VERY different -- so he probably needs to make a bit of an attempt to soften his tone -- but not be sing-songy.  Just a lower tone to not startle her.

    Now, see I don't "schedule" (that's going outside at regimented times) -- instead I prefer to watch the dog and go "out" when she shows sign that she needs to -- I think it's easier to be positive that way.

    You don't have to stay out "long" after she goes -- but bring a toy or some small thing for her to jump at, or roll a ball once.  Doesn't have to be a "long" play time at all -- just enough to divorce returning in from "I'm done".

    • Bronze

     Now that the weather is better it's much easier to "linger"  outside.  One thing I have found is that I think I am actually taking her out too much.  I was trying to keep to a q 2 hour schedule and getting frustrated when she didn't go.  Last night I took her out fewer times and we were more successful.  With three dogs ranging in size from 6lbs to 90 lbs I pretty much have to "schedule" potty breaks so that everyone goes out at one time.

     

    We actually stayed outside this morning after her potty to sniff some blades of grass.

     

    Last night was a HUGE milestone.  At bedtime we watch TV for about an hour before going to sleep and bring the two maltese (I have an Old English that is a bit big for  bed lpay) up on the bed for some bonding time.  Over the weeks I have noticed that Sophie has gone from hugging the side of the bed on the other side of me (opposite DH) to  exploring the area of the bed between us.  He started putting treats on the bed next to him and then on his chest and she will actually explore up on his chest to retrieve the treats.  Last night we were watching the news and forgot to place the treats, she climbed up on his chest sniffed for the treats and then made a playful jump (wagging her tail) as if to say HEY where are my treats.  She totally forgot to be afraid. 

     

    My biggest concern is that I need to go out of town on 4/15 for 4 days and I need for her to be at least comfortable enough with him to allow him to take her out to potty etc, otherwise it will be a very difficult 4 days for everyone. 

    • Gold Top Dog

    Yep, that *was* a huge milestone.  One you can seriously build on -- and honestly to have him **completely** be her "all in all" for several days will ultimately be a good thing. (as long as he keeps tons of treats by the bedside table LOL)

    Have him start *now* alternating potty breaks with you.  And yep -- you're seeing what I mean about 'scheduling'.  Usually for me it's pure frustration because unless the dog **Happens** to have to potty THEN you're kinda screwed. 

    You might also want to hang a bell or even put in a spring doorstop -- anything to make a sound.  Then gently take the paw and smack the bell or doorstop  and say "out!" as you go out.

    When ANY of the dogs "asks" that way then you gotta hurry like heck to show them that is the magic key to getting out. 

    But in a normal 7 month old dog she wouldn't need to go every 2 hours.  There's always a part of me that thinks scheduling just doesn't make sense.  Because there's nothing in there that encourages them ONLY to potty outside.  They're just going when they *Happen* to BE outside.  That's not a logical leap for a dog. 

    The whole "inside" vs. "outside" thing can get really complicated ANYWAY if you have a patio or deck or something *outside* that really isn't potty place either. 

    Often it's just because home "there" and home where YOU live is SO different -- particularly for a dog reared mostfly in a kennel ... that's not a dog who gets a kick out of jumping on Dad's chest for a nice treat at night.  But she's getting it now -- you may find you come home to a different dog/dad relationship *grin*