Halti and Gentle Leader

I've used a Gentle Leader, Easy Walk harness, and prong collar as tools for training.  To be honest the GL is my absolute least fave and will only use it in the future if the dog pulls so bad it causes safety issues and has an aversion to the other two tools.  Both of my pullers detested the GL.  There was instant compliance, sure, but the dogs were not enjoying themselves on the walk or were trying to paw the thing off or scrape their heads on the ground any chance they got.  Also I became uncomfortable with using the tool if the dog was to ever spook or lunge, I don't want their head snapped.  The Easy Walk or prong was much better for both dogs.  Neither involved any desensitization and the dogs will come running with tails wagging if they see these tools (whereas they avoid the GL like the plague).  I prefer the prong because it's easy to put on and the dog cannot back out of it like the Easy Walk.  However with a prong I think there's a greater chance of using it wrong and making things worse, depending on the temperament and sensitivity of the dog.  With Ari's drive and resilience though, it probably would not be an issue.  The other thing with a prong is that depending on the dog, it doesn't work as a self-correcting device.  Nikon will still pull like a horse into a prong collar and even wears one during protection training.  If I'm using it to help with pulling he needs and actual correction.

The best tool I've discovered to stop pulling is also the simplest - basically you use a longer leash and wrap it around the dog's loin.  I use this for walking Nikon out to his tracks, where he is not allowed to pull or track to the track (doesn't have to heel, just has to walk out calmly and under control).  He will pull into a prong if he wants, but he never pulls with the leash around his loin.  I learned this doing dock diving, watching people moving their dogs in a frenzied state of drive from their crate out to the dock with no "equipment" allowed other than a flat collar and basic leash.

 Ari will pull with a prong and a regular choke collar and she pretty much will ignore a sharp leash correction, unfortunately (it doesn't phase her really, particularly if there's something of interest outside, which is pretty much everything). I am very concerned about having something around her muzzle and taking the enjoyment out of the walk. I want us BOTH to enjoy the time out! We HAVE used muzzles in the past for the inappropriate biting (when all else failed) and she learned to accept it, but it's clear as day she is NOT happy. She hasn't had to have a muzzle on in a long time (since she finally matured enough to figure out going for a toy rather than us, and we can redirect her much easier now with a toy, or her favorite an empty 2 liter bottle), but I'm afraid a Halti or GL will be too reminiscent of a muzzle for her.

I never thought about wrapping the leash around her loin. Do you just bring it under once, or actually wrap it around completely? I have a longer lead at home I could try that out on.

Thanks so much for your feedback and I'll also take a look into the Easy Walk. I just want us both to be happy and non-frustrated on our walks!

If the prong and leash pops don't work, the Easy Walk probably will not work either (that was my experience with Nikon).

With the long leash attached to a flat collar, I bring it down the dog's back and then drape it over the left side of the dog (I walk dogs on my left).  Then under the belly and back up to where it is on the dog's back.  Then I loop it through, so it's almost like there's one big knot and the dog's loin is inside the knot.  It's kind of hard to explain but I can take a picture tonight if you want.  I don't know why it works but it does and I swear by it! 

 I think I get what your saying, but if you could take a photo that would be fantastic! A visual would be most helpful. I'd rather try that first before spending money on something that may not work, or work but makes Ari miserable. After all, the goal here is to make her happier with more time outside! 

the_gopher

A visual would be most helpful. I'd

This is what she means:  

the_gopher

I am very concerned about having something around her muzzle and taking the enjoyment out of the walk.

Try a Sporn halter, then - http://www.sporn.com/cgi-bin/commerce.exe?preadd=action&key=SPUS100

I'm assuming the mesh front on this is supposed to mimic the sensation ones?  http://www.sporn.com/cgi-bin/commerce.exe?preadd=action&key=SPUS3

I hate head halters, myself, even though I understand why some people use them temporarily.  It's the folks that use them for every walk that drive me nutso.

 That's it!  Nice job :)

I'll make a quick video too since someone on another forum asked.

Liesje

With the long leash attached to a flat collar, I bring it down the dog's back and then drape it over the left side of the dog (I walk dogs on my left).  Then under the belly and back up to where it is on the dog's back.  Then I loop it through, so it's almost like there's one big knot and the dog's loin is inside the knot.  It's kind of hard to explain but I can take a picture tonight if you want.  I don't know why it works but it does and I swear by it! 

I do the same thing Lies does with the flat collar and leash around the belly. It works really well IMO.

 I *hate* head collars, I really cannot stand them. Ive used them before, and probably never will again.

If I was going to use a "no pull" harness, I would just use a regular nylon harness with the leash clipped to the O ring on the chest. Its the same basic idea as the Easy walk harness, but IMO they work better, are stronger and not easy to get out of like the EW harness is.
Whatever you choose, just make sure you stick with it. It seems like the biggest mistake people make with teaching dogs not to pull is only enforcing durring what they think is an actual training session or walk, and any other time (in the yard, or even quick potty walks outside) they allow the dog to pull. For it to work, it has to be enforced all the time that pulling will get them no where, because if they are rewarded for pulling sometimes but not others, they will just be confused and wont learn anything.

Liesje

That's it!  Nice job :)

Do be careful about the leash around the abdomen with some dogs though. I used it with Gaci, and it worked the first few times. Then one day she saw something that caught her attention and she lunged for it and it tightened way more than I was comfortable with and I am afraid it may leave the potential for injury to organs and spine with some dogs.

I have experiences on the flip side in that Shimmer and Gaci don't have any problems at all wearing their halters. They don't necessarily love them, but once they are out and about they totally forget about them. Gaci didn't like hers at first, I'll be honest. But I think that was because of me and how I introduced it, and the fact that she hates everything that can be considered equipment. Shimmer wears a Halti, and Gaci uses a GL, when we walk in larger groups, because they fit each differently, and you may need to try on both to see what fits.

I don't think they would be associated as with a muzzle - they should feel totally different as the dog can still eat, bite, lick, pant, and open its mouth.

I do second the idea of using a normal harness though with an attachment on the front ring if you are thinking of using a harness. I have a front-clip harness and while I like it, you can get pretty much the same effect from a normal harness that has an O ring on the sternum.

miranadobe

I hate head halters, myself, even though I understand why some people use them temporarily.  It's the folks that use them for every walk that drive me nutso.

I'll play devil's advocate here and say that it's no different than folks who use prong collars for every walk, slip collars for every walk, or even no-pull harnesses for every walk. They all act to change the dog's behaviour when the dog is wearing it.  They are all "tools", as compared to a normal body harness, martingale, or a flat collar.

Here you go: http://vimeo.com/10391548

Nikon was a little confused, lol, he's never in the front yard unless we're leaving for a walk or going in the car.  Normally on a walk he'd have more leash (doesn't have to walk right by my side).

Like Kim says, be careful if you've got a dog that might actually lunge at something.

What I like about this tool is that 1) it's cheap 2) it's simple 3) it works (for me) and 4) it doesn't have anything to do with the dog's head/neck/chest area.  I find that when I'm using other tools that control the dog's head and neck, I'm more likely to use them as a crutch, or use them even though I think I'm not using them, if that makes sense (like during the process of using the tool but also rewarding the dog).  With the make shift harness, it is totally slack as long as the dog is not pulling and the dog's head and front end is free so you can practice rewarding with food or whatever you use without the tool getting in the way.

I also didn't like the GL b/c it put a dent/smooth patch on his muzzle even after a few days of using just on a walk and since I show him I can't have that.  It did work though, just not the way I wanted.  If we're in a situation where I think he might throw a fit or get out of control I can loop the leash a certain way around his head and snout, basically works just like a GL just isn't a permanent fit.  So it does work for us and I'm not totally against using it, just not in daily walks.

One last thing that helps with Nikon is carrying a toy, like a ball or tug.  I'm also working on getting him used to wearing a pack.  Since the weather is getting nicer I'd like to start more regular walks, but walks alone don't provide sufficient exercise and take a lot of time so I'm going to use the pack (or have him start pulling when I get him a weight pull harness).

Liesje, I notice during the first half of the clip that Nikon throws out lots of calming signals - a lot of blinking, ears pulled back, a slight grimace, and a lot of quick lip licking, and ground sniffing. Does he normally find the prep procedure a bit stressful? He does similar behaviours to Gaci when first getting the GL on in the house, which are minor stress responses to getting "dressed". Does he show those signs to getting his harness put on or other "dressing"?

No, but I don't really use this other than preventing him from tracking to a track (in which case he's so hyped up in drive, he's "leaking" drive), or moving him from point A to point B during various points in training like from the crate to the dock for a jump.  I don't walk him or train him like this but some people do so he probably is stressed by the procedure.  Yes, I saw the signals too.  He is also confused because he went out the front door.  That means certain things to him.  He's probably like "why are we doing this out here?!?"  He walks on a flat collar or prong (depends on how many dogs) and he trains off lead besides tracking which is on a line and Fursaver on the dead ring and protection where equipment varies and depends on how the dog is being worked.

Kim_MacMillan

miranadobe

I hate head halters, myself, even though I understand why some people use them temporarily.  It's the folks that use them for every walk that drive me nutso.

I'll play devil's advocate here and say that it's no different than folks who use prong collars for every walk, slip collars for every walk, or even no-pull harnesses for every walk. They all act to change the dog's behaviour when the dog is wearing it.  They are all "tools", as compared to a normal body harness, martingale, or a flat collar.

True, except that the use of prongs to administer a correction is to teach the dog something about his position relative to the handler - with or without the tool on.  Head halters don't.  (Here's where we get into differences on how a prong should be worn/administered - ie, pulling into it, or used to actually give a correction.  So, it's a debatable point.)  The head halter just seems like a leverage device to get the dog's attention while you actually train a correct heel.  But a good portion of dog owners who implement them just clip them on and think, LO!  Problem solved!  With nothing further needing to be "taught" about heel position.  Meanwhile, the dog has not learned heel position except in the context of the head halter.

Slip collars, for me, are safety tools - ie, a loop to the dog should the collar slip.  I don't administer deliberate corrections with a slip lead.  No pull harnesses are generally like head halters (from my perspective) in that they don't teach proper position.  The advantage for me is there's no risk of torquing my dog's head/neck (no thanks on exacerbating Wobblers) should something displace the dog from heel position.  With a head halter, a few inches out and you're either tugging on the dog's face, or if it's loose, you're simply allowing the dog to forge.  Again - not teaching the dog proper position for heel.  

A lot of people don't care about "proper heel position" - others find it far more frustrating to try to get "perfect heel" and just deal with the forging.  My mom has been one of those people - except her dog crosses her body slightly in front of my mom so she ends up tripping on her.  There's something to be said for your dog respecting your space while out on a walk.