At my wits end, need help

hey baron, so glad you had a good experience finally!!!!!  it's easy to preach about patience when you have adult dogs, as i do, but my recent experience with a foster puppy reminded me how "trying" things can be.
 
YAY!!!!  your success makes me feel like dancing!  semper fi, indeed.  (not a marine, just know a few[])

Wow, go Baron!
I just got to this thread, and was heartbroken reading it and when I got to the story about the nap I almost leapt out of my chair! Woo hoo!

I want to encourage you--you are taking real responsibility for this dog, good for you! Dogs like Max wind up getting put down for normal dog behavior all the time and so it is really wonderful to read about someone making real progress and not giving up. You owe Max that, he's a sentient creature, and he wasn't on a good path.

I've owned a driven, "difficult" dog myself, and I have to tell you that if you can change your mindset from reactive to proactive, this is going to be a great, great dog. I have learned so much from having a dog that didn't just read my mind. I've learned a lot about being a good leader, how to know what I want and take nothing less, and how to have serious fun with a dog.

All that energy of Max's is there for you to use. He sounds really really smart and motivated to please you. You two are going to have a really good time.

I have two suggestions.

1. Try NILIF (Nothing IN Life Is Free)! It is as it sounds--dog must work for everything he gets, always, all the time. Max wants water? He must sit and lie down. Max wants to go out? He must stay for a minute. Max wants anything at all? He can have it after he does a few tricks. All the time.

This accomplishes a lot of things without investing in a lot of extra training time. It makes you the leader and provider of all things Max Wants. It is daily practice for obedience tricks in a lot of different environments. It establishes default behaviors (eventually Max will get it: jumping on people gets me nowhere, but sitting in front of people generally gets them to pet me). It makes Max think about his behavior all day long and not just during obedience sessions. It's more mentally tiring than just being given stuff... I could go on. NILIF is really important.

2. Definitely read The Culture Clash. It will help with some of those Why questions in a really sane way.

Keep writing and telling us what happens!!!

Baron  if by chance  you are looking for a nice read on many of the topics listed and have not had a chance to get to the bookstore or library,,, I really like the website  [linkhttp://www.hollysden.com]www.hollysden.com[/link]  You may find some useful information there.
 
Well done sir,,,well done.

I would get a premier easy walk harness to keep him from pulling until you get him trained.

You also may want to read "Bones would fall from the sky" by Clothier. I think it would help you understand your dog more.

And definitely Cutlture clash that Houndlove recommended.

I don't think the dog is aggressive.

Baron......keep up the good work, I am sure you can handle it.[]

Baron I have found these to be a good read also.
 
Dogs are from Neptune - Jean Donaldson
Training your Rottweiler - Barb McNinch
The Essential Rottweiler - Ian Dunbar
After you get a puppy - Ian Dunbar
Dog Behavior - Ian Dunbar
 
I wouldn't do any weight/load bearing things with him yet, wait at least till he's 2 years of age get those elbows and hips exrayed first so you know how healthy those joints are. 

Wow, I am going to have a LOT of reading to do! I always make a bit of time for reading or listening to a bit of an audiobook before bed. It's good for me in 2 ways...1) It calms me down and allows me to relax before bed, and 2) it helps max relax without the noises of the TV, radio or any other unusual noises, which makes him ready for bed. Often, he'll lay at my feet and just sleep the second the TV goes off, he knows it's quiet time.

We had a couple of minor setbacks today, but nothing that wasn't solved by a bit of patience. I had a visitor this evening, and max reacted in his usual way...by jumping on them due to his excitement. I instructed the person to walk back out onto the porch for a few moments, to let him calm down, and then come back in. After 3 tries, he got it and realized that he wasn't going to get any attention by jumping on people who came into the house. It took 5 repetitions yesterday, so maybe he's learning that the bad behavior isn't gonna work for him anymore. He got a little wild outside, with the neighbor's dog (who is the best-behaved dog I have ever seen, after Baron). The neighbor's dog ended up nipping Max, but he deserved it. It was one of those "you're misbehaving and I won't tolerate it" nips, not something designed to hurt him. The neighbor's dog may actually be a good influence on him, if I can keep max calm enough to learn from him. He also tried climbing up in my chair and tried to chew on my shoes today, but I think we've corrected those problems for now (I'm sure he'll require occasional refreshers for the first couple of days). Overall though, the suggestions that y'all have given me have done quite well. I replaced my shoe with a toy that he IS allowed to chew on and he didn't seem to mind at all.

I think more than anything else, common sense and patience have helped me with this training. I was constantly angry and trying to fight with him before, and it never worked. Working against mother nature has been counter-productive. I was only reinforcing his BAD behavior before instead of guiding him to what he needs to do to behave. I have seen a night and day difference in some things concerning max, such as his attitude toward me. It's like I flipped a switch in his head and he went from insane to normal...or semi-normal. I've got a ways to go yet.

Again, thanks for all the suggestions and book recommendations, I look forward to checking them out.

ORIGINAL: baron
I think more than anything else, common sense and patience have helped me with this training. I was constantly angry and trying to fight with him before, and it never worked. Working against mother nature has been counter-productive. I was only reinforcing his BAD behavior before instead of guiding him to what he needs to do to behave.

In her book, "The Other End of the Leash", Dr. McConnell talked about how "traditional" training was a battle of two wills, yours versus the dog. It generated a lot of conflict and aggression and required A LOT of energy from both sides. With positive reinforcement, it's about both of you working together. It generates peace and calm, but also requires a lot less energy.

The past few days I really started to feel in sync with Oscar and working with him actually became fun! I realized that our relationship is no longer one of ME trying to MAKE HIM STOP doing things that are "bad". Instead, I started feeling like it's a team sport. I try to figure out how we can work together so that he learns good habits while forgetting about bad ones. It still requires a lot of patience and work, but I do feel more in control. Whereas before I felt that I was at his mercy (I'd think "oh no, what is he going to do now?"), now I feel that we're in this together, and I am there to observe him and help/guide him. I will either help him cope with a situation or I'd take him out. In either case, we're in it together. It's a real subtle change in thinking, but it really has made all the difference!

I'll tell you a little secret.  After my heart boy went to the bridge, I  went from cocker spaniels to german shepherds!  I knew that no matter how hard I tried that somewhere in my head a little voice would be saying "RUSTY would have.....he doesn't do that nearly as well as Rusty did....." had I brought home another cocker.  I still had a couple of my girls, but I know myself well enough to know that I would have always been making little mental comparisons, and that flat out wouldn't have been fair to a new cocker.  Rusty was a very special, once in a lifetime boy (note I'm not using the d  o  g word.....he didn't think he was one and was highly offended when I called him one.  I can just see him at the Bridge rolling his eyes that I used that word!)  Four years later I still miss him.
 
So I really understand the comparisons you make.  It's so hard NOT to.  And it sounds like you've finally realized that you can't do that and still be fair to Max.  It also sounds like a change in your attitude has made all the difference in the world to your boy.  Keep up the great work!

I am going to check out the book which was mentioned earlier, but does anyone else have any suggestions about books which would help me understand what's going on in Max's head? I think if I could understand, I'd have much less trouble training him. Once I figure out how things work, or why, I can almost always grasp how to best utilize them to my advantage. I want Max to be a happy dog, and I believe that the only way that can happen is through proper training. All of his acting out may have just been a cry for help, and I failed him. I will try everything written in this thread, for both of our sakes. Now that I know it CAN be done, failure is no longer an option. So thank you very much to everyone who has replied and read, you have saved me AND Max.

 
Baron, I'm just coming into this discussion, and I'm impressed with your dedication and the progress you've already made!!!  Can I make a few book recommendations?
 
I'm reading right now "Bone would rain from the sky" by suzanne clothier and it's GREAT - I didn't think I would like it at first, but I had some borders giftcards to use and got it and I'm really impressed with how it's helping me relate to my dogs.  "The Culture Clash" by jean donaldson is good, but for me it didn't "flow" well and was a bit.... dry, maybe is the word I want.  "the other end of the leash" by patricia mcconnell is really good too, as is her sequel "for the love of a dog" and "the power of positive dog training" by pat miller is good if you want to learn more about that. 
 
there's also a booklet "feisty fido" by patricia mcconnell that deals with leash reactive/aggressive dogs, so if you have trouble with max on leash it might be worth a read - it's short and only about $5-$8 - she has a number of short booklets on various topics, and the one on separation anxiety was helpful to me for my Sammy. 
 
so my main recommendation for understanding dogs was Bones Would Rain from the Sky - I'm halfway through it but it's a very well-written book that's easy to read. 
 
Again, it's great to hear about success stories and people who are really trying to help their dog and seeing it work!!  I hope you're able to continue making headway with max!

I can identify with what Glenda said.  My Dancer (a true "wonder dog"  - lost her in October at the age of 17+), was my heart dog of a lifetime (I'm in my 50's).  But, instead of drawing comparisons, I chose to highlight other things in my other dogs.  Here's what I did, even before the old girl was gone.  I told my dogs "affirmations"  Instead of thinking that Sioux would never measure up, I told her that she was a "wonder dog in training".  So, when Dancer finally went, Sioux, a completely different dog, still ascended to the "throne" for being who SHE was.  I will never have another dog like Dancer - but now I know that I will never have another dog like Sioux either!!!  She's quite wonderful in her own right.

One of the most important lessons puppies learn is how to behave with other dogs.  It's critically important to socialize your pup early and often - that's why class is so useful.  Dogs quickly realize "us" and "them", and can become dog aggressive to those outside their immediate social circle.  Not what you want if you plan to attend shows, activities, dog walks, etc. with your dog.  Your neighbor's dog reacted appropriately to an obnoxious youngster, but you don't want that to be your dog's only experience with adult dogs.  Many training centers now have play groups for their students, which can provide a safe way to do this training.  Dog parks are not necessarily safe, and have given many pups an inappropriate introduction to other dogs.

I just got "The Other End of the Leash" myself and am about halfway through it. It's a really great book - I definitely recommend it. There are also some great articles online. Keep us updated []

Max is still coming along, slowly but surely. There's one problem I cannot seem to break him of though...

My friends/family usually call before they come over, so max learned to recognize that the phone ringing means excitement to come. I have told them not to do that anymore, and they're doing well, but max isn't. Every time the phone rings, he gets out of control...biting my feet, jumping on me, etc.

I've tried walking out of the room with the phone, while I'm talking...to tell him it's not acceptable to jump and bite when I'm on the phone, but he continues to do it anyway. When he was smaller, I would hold him back with my foot, which is probably why he's now attacking my foot, so that's my fault. Does anyone have any ideas about how to break him of this?

Other than the phone thing, the leash is still a huge issue with him, but I think we'll get that under control in a couple more weeks. NILIF is working far better than spanking/yelling ever did. He now sits 90% of the time.

I have tried to place a picture in this post, hopefully it shows up. That's Max, when he's being good. He's a cute little guy when he's behaving himself, and a holy terror when he's not!

When he goes nuts like this (when the phone rings or even at other times - having a dog that size barrelling about is at best inconvenient and at worst quite dangerous!) get up and lead him out of the room.  Let him back in after 30 secs.  If he is mouthy at these times, it might be useful to leave a trailing line on him to lead him out by so you don't get nipped.  This also helps you to not touch him, speak to him or look at him as you do it, all of which are likely to be rewarding and encouraging the inappropriate behaviour.  Or leave yourself and come back.
 
I'm going to make a huge assumption here and assume you have a mobile phone.  Ring your house phone with it to "practise it" throughout the day.  This will also go a little way to relieve him of the impression that phone ringing always precedes visitors.
 
Would just like to add - he looks almost edible!  If you decide you really can't cope, send him to my house!!!!  [][][][][]

Thanks. I'll give that a try. I tried changing ringtones on the home phone, but that doesn't seem to make any difference. My mobile ring perks up his ears, but he doesn't get up and act like a nut.

It's quite deceptive...he looks so cute, and calm, but he can be quite the little monster too! I'm going to cope though, no matter how difficult it gets. So don't get your hopes up that he'll be coming to your house to chew on your blankets or shoes and attack you when the phone rings. haha