Just call me stupid.......

 Welcome to the forum "Stupid". Just kidding. LOL! I know there will be members along to give you good advice and training tips. I just wanted to say when I got my Aussie puppy he was a nipper as well.  All puppies nip but I think herding breeds can be especially nippy. I have to tell you that my ankles have never been the same. One thing that worked very well for me is I would offer a stuffy when he would get nippy. A pup with a mouth full cannot bite. He eventually grew out of it - which most do, but loved to carry something in his mouth the rest of his life.

Good luck with the puppy madness! They grow up really fast. 

denise m

One thing that worked very well for me is I would offer a stuffy when he would get nippy. A pup with a mouth full cannot bite. He eventually grew out of it - which most do, but loved to carry something in his mouth the rest of his life.

We did the same thing with our doberman when she was a nippy puppy. She was a little stinker as a puppy but has grown into a very well behaved and great dog. Good luck with your little devil.

goatmom

Cuteness is overrated

Julie, you are not alone, trust me.  I live with my sister who rescued her Border Collie mix from a pound in Belgium (she lived there) as a puppy.  She had no clue about what "probably a BC mix" meant, but certainly knew what ADORABLE PUPPY meant (in English, French, or Flemmish).  She got him as a companion to another dog.... get this... because she TRAVELED so much!  She lived on a farm built in 1745, but no more animals, just a big yard to run in - when someone was home to be with him and his brother.  He got no training.  I live with him now, that he's 5yrs old.  He's definitely mellowed since his first two years, but even I'm learning that living with some herding breeds is a very different experience if you've had breeds in the past that were more attentive to your needs and training efforts.  Super sensitive, sometimes overly reactive, super fast physically (ie, to avoid getting "caught" in the act) and mentally (learns things for himself very fast, but can differentiate between such a wider range of activities/environments/circumstances that he considers them different.  So a down in the kitchen is not the same as a down in the living room w/a bone nearby.... at least he tries to act like it's a new concept, "What's this "down" thing she says to me?!";)

You know who will be a really good source for you - and I suspect she'll be here shortly to help - is spiritdogs (Anne in real-life).  She owns/trains her Aussies (among other dogs) and is patient to teach you what you need.

In the meantime, breathe.  You're in a good place for help, support, ideas, and venting (rather than on the dog).  I learned by the BC in my house that he isn't a bad dog, I simply don't/didn't understand him.  Once you find the mutual language to share (good obedience training set to her needs) you will be fluent in BC-Human pretty soon.  It really is fun to watch them learn so fast and REASON their way to what you want them to do.  You cannot force this breed, or coerce.  They have to want it, from my experiences, so it will actually be fun for you to teach her once you know how. 

Loopy

 

denise m

One thing that worked very well for me is I would offer a stuffy when he would get nippy. A pup with a mouth full cannot bite. He eventually grew out of it - which most do, but loved to carry something in his mouth the rest of his life.

We did the same thing with our doberman when she was a nippy puppy. She was a little stinker as a puppy but has grown into a very well behaved and great dog. Good luck with your little devil.

I will also tout this method.  My Lab/Aussie mix Harry was a very nippy pup.  It was this behavior that actually (and thankfully!) led me to find this forum. 

Redirecting them to nip on something appropriate (a toy) is an excellent way to teach the dog that it is not okay to nip on people. 

We also utilized the time-out method (I would literally walk into another room and close the door, keeping him outside the room for about 30 seconds).  The reason this method works is that it teaches the dog that if they carry the playing too far, playtime ends.

I do think its especially hard to teach herders not to nip, because it is so ingrained in them, but also remember that one of the benefits of having a herder (or mix) is that they're incredibly intelligent and thrive on learning.

Good luck!!

Hello,

 Thank you all for your responses.  So an Aussie is the collie in the picture?  I have read that herding dogs need a job to do, so I'm trying to think of something to teach that could be a "job."  What is a stuffy?  Like a stuffed toy?  I know she doesn't do this to be mean, although sometimes when I try to stop her from biting, she gets this look and gets more aggressive about it, so I just don't know.  She is very cute and does some very funny things, so it isn't all bad.  She has fun with our goats, and chases the farm cats around.  They don't like her very much!  Unfortunately, when she gets in a biting frenzie, I don't think she's very cute anymore.  I don't know how much longer this is going to take, and I don't know if I have the patience for it.  I just had her outside then brought her in our garage to play with her.  I throw a ball, she brings it back and drops it on the ground (I didn't train her to do this, I think she just does it, sort of accidently) but then if I go to pick it up she starts BITING!!  If she can't bite my hands, she bites on my jacket or on my pantleg.  I can't imagine how much blood would have been shed by now had I not been wearing winter clothes!   I think I would have given her back for sure!   I just keep thinking "what have I gotten myself into?" 

Hi Julie, I'll just call you Stoop for short.    Just kidding.

My GSD was extremely nippy when she was a puppy.  I remember having second thoughts about whether she was right for our family; and whether I'd be able to handle the training.  It was tough for the first year, honestly.  Heidi is a willful, independent girl and when she was young, we had a battle of wills.

She is now 3 and I can't imagine life without her. 

The biting was hard to deal with and I did all the things you mention as well.  Redirection to an appropriate toy (not your ankle) is constant.  Or redirecting by impromptu (short) training session will help.  Socialization and puppy play dates will help.  Getting her into a puppy kindegarten class will work wonders as well. 

You are at the right place...you can read others who have or had the same issues and the ways they worked through them.  This will pass.  You may have to protect your arms and legs with long sleeves and jeans for a while....but you will get through it.

Good luck, take a breather....read and learn.  We have some excellent trainers here who can help.

Hey, we need a picture of this little monster.

Welcome! 

goatmom

but then if I go to pick it up she starts BITING!!  If she can't bite my hands, she bites on my jacket or on my pantleg.  I can't imagine how much blood would have been shed by now had I not been wearing winter clothes!   I think I would have given her back for sure!   I just keep thinking "what have I gotten myself into?" 

goatmom

 I throw a ball, she brings it back and drops it on the ground (I didn't train her to do this, I think she just does it, sort of accidently) but then if I go to pick it up she starts BITING!!   

Definitely keep a stuffed toy on you at all times to redirect her when she's nipping at your pants. 

For the ball biting, just have a second ball to throw. She drops the first, you throw the second, she runs after it and you safely pick up ball #1 to start all over again!

I have fostered whole litters of little nippers, better known as german shepherds, also a herding dog.

The fanny pack full of chewie stuff is a lifesaver.  Stuffies, as in stuffed animals, real cow bones, anything besides ME that is ok to chew on.  A little eh eh, no bite, followed by the presentation of an acceptable chew toy with THIS is what you can bite, followed by PRAISE for chewing on the right thing.  And when and if that fails, getting up and leaving the room without a word, without a look, just walk away and put a door between you and the pup.

The herding breeds tend to be extremely intelligent and yes, they need something to do.  If you don't give them a job, they tend to find one on their own, such as digging up the flower beds, eating the sofa....things you'd prefer that they not do.  All of my gsds know how to "find" things and are put through their paces on a regular basis with "find the whatever" simply to keep them busy.  Tyler works as a therapy dog with the elderly in the nursing home just up the street.  He absolutely adores the elderly.  We do DAILY walks.  I talk three at a time for a 3 mile walk.  Which means while THEY get 3 miles, I get 6. I walk them on very long lines so they get the back and forth between me and the end of the line but I have total control and the ability to "reel them in" when others are out walking.  We also have good runs in the yard, playing fetch, tag, whatever just to get them a bit worn out.  Because all dogs, but especially herding dogs, need MENTAL stimulation as well as physical, I do frequent short training sessions with the whole group which requires a good deal of self control from the dogs.

Puppyhood is hell-o.  There is a REASON they are so danged cute....so we don't kill them before they grow up! 

Anne is great and I'm sure she'll be along with all kinds of really good ideas for you.

 I also have a herder, my corgi. Between the ages of 10 wks-6 mo, she was permanently attached to my lower legs. After that was no fun she moved on to our other dogs neck, he didn't like it and told her so. She is now 5 and only "nips" the cat, but even the cat has limits and will use her claws if need be. Just remember, this to shall pass.

 I have a mutt who I do not believe is a herding breed at all BUT he was insanely mouthy as a youngster and huge from the get go so it was essential that we dealt with the mouthiness.  As the others have said we just kept offering something appropriate for his mouth and now he would never greet anyone empty-mouthed. LOL

He too was non-stop and too clever for his own good and my sanity, but you will figure it out. Now that I understand what he wants and vice versa its all good, and his antics are humorous not frustrating (for the most part )

Paige you've described Bugsy here:

miranadobe

Mine does something very similar, and he likes to "steal" things, wanting you to chase him for the contraban.  When he drops it, he immediately grabs for it.  I had to teach him to drop an item and back away from it (3-5 feet). 

Welcome to the world of herding dogs Stoop. Just kidding

You have been given some good advice. I will add that my Kord, a German shepherd, was also nippy.  Exchanging a toy is a good ploy but there are other things you can do as well. When she drops it on the floor at your feet you can do several things. Reward for the drop and associate a word for it, and here is a opportunity to add more training as well. You can teach her to "back up" and "sit", reward, get the toy and throw for them again. As you progress you can teach, stay, down or other commands.

Don't be afraid to name the different toys either, it's another learning game. You will be surprised at how fast they learn.

My biggest advice, everyone needs to be firm and consistent with commands and tolerance and reward the correct behavior.

Good luck, and oh yeah...we need pictures of the little monster.

 OK, here goes...

First, give up anything that you have been doing to physically correct her.  A recent study done at the University of Pennsylvania found that dogs with aggressive owners become more aggressive, not less. 

Next, make arrangements for her to get some off leash play time with other puppies.  Sign up for a positive training class, or take her to day care a couple of times per week perhaps.  Pups learn a lot about bite inhibition from playing with other dogs!  Read this info on puppy socialization and its importance: http://www.avsabonline.org/avsabonline/images/stories/Position_Statements/puppy%20socialization.pdf. 

Avoid thinking of this in terms of a need to dominate or boss your dog - read this to see why: http://www.avsabonline.org/avsabonline/images/stories/Position_Statements/dominance%20statement.pdf,

She may be biting you because she thinks you invited her to;-)  Dogs play roughly with one another, even when they are puppies. If you flail at a pup, or grab their muzzle or put them on the ground, they can interpret that two ways.  "You want to play with me."  OR  "You're trying to kill me."  Neither is good.  Most people spend a lot of time trying to correct a dog, but they forget to reward the dog when they are just hanging around being good - so put some conscious effort into noticing when she is quiet and reward her with a quiet "good girl" or a little tidbit.  I like to reward what I like and ignore what I don't because dogs generally do what works and eventually discard what doesn't.  This is a great little video about using clicker training to teach a puppy not to be nippy: http://www.howcast.com/videos/190114-Dogmantics-Dog-Training-Television-Episode-1

Dr. Ian Dunbar has a terrific video that shows dogs learning some impulse control and how to pay attention to their handlers: http://www.jamesandkenneth.com/store/show/DV532

I recently tried these techniques with one of my classes to see if I wanted to incorporate them into my teaching, and the dogs did so well, I decided to revamp all my classes for adolescent and adult dogs to include the material on that video.  The owners were all ecstatic at how well their dogs were learning to control themselves!

These dogs do need "jobs", and you can use meal times to make them work for their dinner:-)  I sometimes clicker train using part of my dog's regular ration as rewards (that way, no fat dogs lol).  And, sometimes, I use food puzzles like this: http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=2014&ParentCat=52 or this: http://www.animalbehaviorassociates.com/toys-tug-a-jug.htm to feed from.

Herding balls or soccer balls, or even an empty 2-liter bottle with no cap, make great toys to herd.  I use frisbees and tennis balls, too, but if your dog is biting at you when you go to pick it up, you need to get to class or visit this site: www.clickerlessons.com so that you can teach "leave it" and "stay" - that way, you can control her movements, rather than her trying to control yours.

Herders are a handful, but you won't find a smarter and more fun companion than one that is trained and managed well.

Lets see....were Great Danes herders???? I think so!   

HHHmmm..Gibson sure acts like all of the above.  Or used to.....he is growing up to be a nicer and more obedient doggy now....but it sure was a tough road to go for the first year and a half.  Gibby would bite you and then start barking at you to really sound like he was telling you off.  I have done all of the above......and I did find that the best thing I could remember was to walk away from him if he didn't stop biting and barking....I would walk in another room entirely.....and he would be flabbergasted.  He still does it some.....he loves to play and that is his way to play.   I do take him to play days at a day care a lot just to keep him tired and busy..... He will be two years old in the end of March.....and is getting better and better and better as he matures. So will your dog.  Best of luck!