Shaker Cans?

miranadobe

DumDog

i've only ACTUALLY seen one used once by my grandmother with her toy poodle. and i cant really recall what the dog was doing for it to be used.. i was still young then..

I wouldn't doubt we've all seen a grandmother rub a dog's nose in its pee, too. 

DumDog

AND this sounds WAY better than a slap on the nose! 

  Why on earth would anyone slap a dog on the nose?  Or anywhere, for that matter? 

it makes as much sense as rubbing their nose in pee. and like you said about grandmothers, you know as well as i do that some people have smacked their dog for one reason or another because thats the only method they know, same as rubbing their noses in pee. it only makes the dog scared of you or your hands... thats what i'm NOT doing. i dont want to hit any animal and i dont want my dog scared of me any time i try to pet it or if i need to take its collar. i've seen the results of head shy dogs.. DH has the scar on his wrist when he tried to take the collar of an adopted dog that we didnt know was head shy until that moment.

i'm taking note here and not to worry. i'm not going to slap my dog around for being normal. i'm just interested in different methods. Liesje, yeah i'm with you on the shaker. i dont much care for the noise but i was curious anyway what people thought about it or if they use or have used that method. and no, i dont want to use spray bottles ever. i think it will just change my dogs personality, not to mention become another mess i have to clean because my aim is horrible. i would probably miss and end up squirting the antique china cabinet that doesnt have a finish on the wood...

Chuffy

 Pups are never born knowing what "no" means.  You speak, and when he doesn't listen, you gently REMOVE him - and give him something appropriate to do.  Shaking a can at him doesn't teach him anything meaningful. 

I tried one once, and the pup was sneaky enough to always be a brat or do something I didn't like.... when I didnt have the thing on me.  

i'm gonna go with puppy pen - we have a crate and that worked GREAT for Sparta. he was a puppy almost two years ago, but he wasnt an ankle biter....chickens on the other hand.....

... anyway. i've put her in the crate like i did with him, but its huge and out of the way(because its Sparta's crate) so naturally she cant see and has a fit. she's really just fine being loose in the house except during those random biting moments. normally i can pick her up and move her to something else to chew, but this particular situation today my hands were full. So i think i'm going to find a puppy pen and just use it during lunch and dinner time and scrap the can idea completely. you've all brought up good points, especially about people throwing it at the dog or over using it to the point where the dog will be scared. i'm not the only adult here(babysitters, relatives or friends visiting, etc) and i can just picture one of them doing something horrible like that.... and my equally horrible reaction to it.

ETA to give the little monster credit lol the other day she found one of the kids wooden ABC blocks and came strutting into the room with it. i took that as a chance to teach.. so i took it and set it away and said no in a firm voice. she looked at me like "WHAT??" then put her mouth on it. i said No. and moved it back. she tilted her head at me then pushed it with her nose.. No! ... moved it back again.. then she stared at me... then at the block.. then stretched her toes out to it just barely touching it then growled at it.... i wish i'd had the camera for that. but she finally did leave the block alone. So she IS learning what no means but she's still young and would rather play.

thanks everyone!

 Lucky!!!  I once had a pup that learned what No meant in about one sitting.... Unfortunately for me, the pup thought it meant "grab it and RUN, they are going to STEAL IT!!!!! arghhhh!!!!!"

DumDog

ETA to give the little monster credit lol the other day she found one of the kids wooden ABC blocks and came strutting into the room with it. i took that as a chance to teach.. so i took it and set it away and said no in a firm voice. she looked at me like "WHAT??" then put her mouth on it. i said No. and moved it back. she tilted her head at me then pushed it with her nose.. No! ... moved it back again.. then she stared at me... then at the block.. then stretched her toes out to it just barely touching it then growled at it.... i wish i'd had the camera for that. but she finally did leave the block alone. So she IS learning what no means but she's still young and would rather play.

What do you think she learned here?

 I don't like shake cans, and I think it's unfair to punish a puppy for normal puppy behavior that you have not managed well, or trained an alternative behavior for that the dog can do instead of what's irritating you.  I do have one shake can at my training center, but it's only used as a noise interruption for breaking up a serious tiff.  I almost never need to use it.  IMO, it's always better to prevent, and manage, and train the puppy.  If your shoes are up off the floor and there's no chicken carcass on the counter, the puppy doesn't get them, right?

 Ha ha, sometimes feel like I need a puppy round here again... the house is never tidier!

Chuffy

 Ha ha, sometimes feel like I need a puppy round here again... the house is never tidier!

thats about the gist of it lol the kids are more actively picking up their own toys(i dont have to tell them anymore!) they are so afraid she is going to eat one of their trucks its almost funny.

It's a relatively old-school teaching method. Like others have said, it can either be
- ineffective
- over-punishing (and you never know till it's too late!)
- just right - unfortunately this applies to the smallest population of dogs.

Really, using a word that you teach the dog is a lot easier than a shaker can. Plus, you can always have a word with you - you likely won't always have your can on hand. And in an emergency (life threatening to a dog and you need its attention now) you can use a louder noise, or a loud clap.

The best way though is to not have to have to tell your dog it is wrong all the time - if you are doing it too often, it means something else more foundational is failing, like your management and supervision. I really like puppy pens or playstations (tethers on blankets) and baby gates where they can have some freedom, but still are restricted to what they have access to.

Really, using a word that you teach the dog is a lot easier than a shaker can. Plus, you can always have a word with you - you likely won't always have your can on hand. And in an emergency (life threatening to a dog and you need its attention now) you can use a louder noise, or a loud clap.

That's very true, but in my situation, the dogs are not mine - they are just there for off leash play.  As much as I tell people not to get their hands between dogs, I have found that it is reflexive with most humans, so a noisemaker can come in handy once in a while if a clap doesn't get their attention.  I certainly don't advocate their routine use, and, in fact, discourage it, but we have larger adult dogs playing as well as puppy groups or smaller dogs, so it can be useful in a very limited number of instances.  BTW, the can doesn't leave my hands unless the dogs are s-e-r-i-o-u-s, and that happens so rarely that I can only think of a couple of instances where it did.  (Two female terriers who got into it in the lobby when coming in the door - back at the place I used to work.  I threw the can from inside the hall out to the lobby as I ran out there, and they still didn't stop - we had to use the leg pull and swing on them...)

Yes, I was talking in the standpoint of using it with one dog in a home in a training situation which is what the OP is talking about.

It's also why I differentiated between "teaching" and a crisis situation in which you do what you need to do to distract dogs from something.

Chuffy

 Pups are never born knowing what "no" means.  You speak, and when he doesn't listen, you gently REMOVE him - and give him something appropriate to do.  Shaking a can at him doesn't teach him anything meaningful. 

I tried one once, and the pup was sneaky enough to always be a brat or do something I didn't like.... when I didnt have the thing on me.  

That's a good point that I honestly never thought of before. I'll do that approach from now on. 

I dont think a shake can would be cruel, but you might have some fear of loud noises if you use it too often. Although Brandy J. Oliver, author of “Correcting Dogs: (alternatives for) Punishment with Shake Cans & Squirt Guns” feels that the shake can is okay if used sparingly. I think the only reason it is used though is to get the attention of the dog, not to train him out of doing the behavior you dont like. Why not just clap your hands or whistle loudly? Then you wouldnt have to carry a can with you to get his attention.

punkchica321

 I will say 'no' but when he doesn't listen, then I shake the can.

When I say "no" it's a neutral no, meaning "nope, you didn't earn that or anything else."  Then I pick up the dog and put it by something more appropriate.  When he's older and doing more training, "no" becomes a no-reward-marker (NRM).  It's not a verbal correct, I just simply say "no" in a totally neutral voice to let the dog know what he did does not earn the reward, try something else.  They don't ever learn what not to do until they learn what *to* do.

 I've used a shaker can with the cat, to prevent her from scratching inappropriate things. Didn't work so well, I forgot that shes a cat and does what she pleases.

tiffy

 I've used a shaker can with the cat, to prevent her from scratching inappropriate things. Didn't work so well, I forgot that shes a cat and does what she pleases.

LOL, um, yeah, we tried that with 1 of our cats, too. Didn't work. He does what he wants, when he wants, how he wants to do it. Cats. *shrugs*