First puppy class update!

YAY!!  You're going to have a great time!

Good for you and Zoey.  I watched the vacuum vid and she's doing very well. :)

JackieG

Good for you and Zoey.  I watched the vacuum vid and she's doing very well. :)

yes I was very proud of her, that was the 2nd time ( in the same night & ever) to have it ON and not want to kill it LOL

she progresses very quickly. but I plan to do lots more to really cement the behavior.

YAY for finding a class you are comfortable with... hope you both enjoy it

 I'm so excited, our homework we got - zoey alreay does all of it!! LOL but we'll still work on it.

Just very happy I found a different class. I realize if I did the one @ the vets I would have been disappointed. I think I chose the right class.

The trainer is very approachable & easy to talk to. I like that.

 Zoeys first class went better than expected, in some ways LOL.

the beginning of the class excitement/barking was shorter than I thought it would be. There was a VERY excited little bully girl who had to have a temp wall made from ex pens and sheets so that she could calm down.

During our first excercise, the little bully girl got loose from her owners, ran out from behind the wall and came right up to Zoey. They sniffed, and sniffed. then I'm thinking to myself 'wow, ok this is going good', that should have been my sign to end it on a good note! Zoey was overwhelmed & 'went after' the little bully girl. oops. I was a little frustrated because the owners didn't seem in too big of a rush to retrieve their puppy. I feel like I should have been watching out for her more, and removed her from the situation before she felt overwhelmed.

so that kinda sucked! the next exercises were good. The teacher even used Zoe for the 'recall' demo. Zoey didn't fail once!! even with all those puppies sitting at the back wall, she quickly spun around & ran to the trainer ( who she just met) and got a treat. She did so well the teacher had to fake 'this is what to do if you puppy fails to recall'. I was very proud of her. When I had to work on the recall with her, she wouldn't 'go away' LOL she just stuck right by me, sitting every time I stopped. I actually had to use my Bf as a distraction!

there was a very handsome red dobe boy next to us, he was very um 'whiney' Zoey only fixated & barked at him twice, but otherwise paid attention to me. She was also the only puppy that laid at my feet when the trainer was talking. I was very proud of her.

 Then it was time for group play. I wasn't sure if she was ready for this or not!! the next class of pups came in so there were even more pups!! There were several ex pens set up and the pups were sorted by size & temperament.

Zoe was put into a pen with a heeler pup ( smaller than her) and a rottie pup.  When it was our turn to unleash, the heeler pup immediatly came over to Zoey & jumped on her ( of course she didn't like that & reacted) I removed her immediately.  Even while I was holding her the antics of the heeler pup - i cant believe this, but MORE hyper than Zoey. Racing around, it really was too much for zoey & she wanted to chase her ( i didn't let her though). then we tried just Zoe and the rottie pup, she was alot calmer - more of a pup to play calmly with Zoey.

They were fine for the first few seconds, Zoe didn't even really notice her, and she was too busy sniffing the little male papillion on the other side of the fence ( which i rewarded).  at one point the rottie pup came up to Zoe ( up along side of her, from the back) and was sniffing. I could tell immediately  when Zoey got tense & went over there and separated them.  the trainer said that the rottie pup was just barely starting to put her head over Zoey's shoulders.I also noticed I was the only owner actually following my pup around as a referee LOL

I was proud of her though that alot of times there were puppies within feet of her, and she'd just lay on the floor or look at me.

I think this is all good though, this is why I'm bringing her to a class, to socialize! and there might be bumps along the way. but I think it'll give me opportunities to read her body language better and help make it a positive experience. 

I would describe zoe as being very reactive to new stimuli, whether its a puppy a motorcycle, a styrofoam cup blowing in the wind ( yes she's done that! she went nuts yesterday over that stupid cup!)

so it's just reassuring her to always look at me, and trust when I ask her to approach something. 

 If Zoey continues to have multuiple negative interactions during group play, you may want to just skip the play time part of class. Many herding breed girls are predisposed to being reactive and snarky towards other dogs. Putting them in situations at a young age where they feel they have to be defensive isn't socialization, it's teaching them to be reactive when strange dogs come up to them. IMO and IME if you have multiple dogs at home for your puppy to interact with, there isn't a real need for them to have play time with a bunch of strange, poorly managed puppies. I would really watch out for the Bully pup too, since one of the worst situations for a dog who already are feeling vulnerable is for a loose dog to run up to them and be rude while they are on lead.

 I have had herding breed girls learn on leash aggression and to be reactive to strange dogs through negative experiences like this and have known plenty of others who have had similiar experiences.

 I would love for her to be able to meet other dogs, but really when it comes down to it if she's ok with seeing other dogs but not meeting that would be good too. Like how she didn't get too crazy having the dobe next to us. I just want her to be able to still focus on me in situations where there is another dog present, but not necessarily interacting.

the trainer/teacher has 3 herding dogs, so hopefully she knows how to deal with this. I do have to say that she was giving alot of thought of which puppies zoey would be allowed to 'attempt' to interact with, after seeing how reactive she was with the bully girl.

I almost feel like due to the fact that these are puppies, that they don't really know manners yet. Like it would be smarter to have her meet an older, calm non reactive dog. 

AgileGSD

 If Zoey continues to have multuiple negative interactions during group play, you may want to just skip the play time part of class. Many herding breed girls are predisposed to being reactive and snarky towards other dogs. Putting them in situations at a young age where they feel they have to be defensive isn't socialization, it's teaching them to be reactive when strange dogs come up to them. IMO and IME if you have multiple dogs at home for your puppy to interact with, there isn't a real need for them to have play time with a bunch of strange, poorly managed puppies. I would really watch out for the Bully pup too, since one of the worst situations for a dog who already are feeling vulnerable is for a loose dog to run up to them and be rude while they are on lead.

 I have had herding breed girls learn on leash aggression and to be reactive to strange dogs through negative experiences like this and have known plenty of others who have had similiar experiences.

This is all so true... Regardless of breed, no class is better than a bad class, for exactly this reason.  This doesn't sound "bad", but the play time doesn't sound like it suits Zoey too well, so I would also be inclined to skip that part.... or be VERY careful which other pups she reacts with.  At this point, I would want all her experiences to be as positive as possible.

 I thought  bad puppy play would be turning all of them loose together. that didn't happen.

I'm not really sure which puppies she should meet, I mean out of all of them there were two that we thought would be suitable, then one. But then that one she had a reaction with ( only when the pup put her head over zoey's shoulder). Kinda feeling like she's doomed to be socialized.

akyramoto82

 I thought  bad puppy play would be turning all of them loose together. that didn't happen.

I'm not really sure which puppies she should meet, I mean out of all of them there were two that we thought would be suitable, then one. But then that one she had a reaction with ( only when the pup put her head over zoey's shoulder). Kinda feeling like she's doomed to be socialized.

Turning them all loose together in a free for all would be a bad puppy play time for sure. But so is repeatedly putting your puppy in a situation where she becomes defensive, no matter if it's with one puppy or ten. Group play with a bunch of other puppies is not required socialization for a puppy to grow into a well rounded dog. The first dogs that I trained never had group play with strange dogs growing up and they had great manners with other dogs at class, shows and visiting friends. You have multiple dogs at your house that your puppy will be learning all the appropriate doggy manners from. Most dogs who really enjoy playing with other dogs are breeds which retain a lot of juvenile behavior traits such as many sporting breeds. Herding breeds tend to have a more primitive set of dog behaviors and in that, many don't seem inclined to want to romp with a bunch of dogs they don't know. Having raised herding breed dogs (and one Dobe mix) both ways, I am inclined to suggest away from trying to "socialize" them by putting them with strange, often times rude puppies to "learn how to interact with other dogs".

 I wouldn't suggest dropping out of the class but why not try a couple weeks of skipping out on the playtime? It sounds like it is at the end of the class, so it shouldn't be too hard to just leave early. Get there a bit early and explain to the instructor that you don't feel comfortable putting your dog into a situation where she has to become defensive, so you will be skipping the group play for now. A good instructor may tell you why she feels group play is important but should not have a problem with you doing what you feel is right for your dog. 

 hmm. I think it just depends on the pup in general, she was very interested in the papillion on the other side of the ex pen. maybe meeting but not having too much contact just yet would be good. seeing/*maybe* a sniff, then on to something else.