HELP! Apollo attacked...(BlackLabbie)

When the pup came over to me, he sniffed me, and I patted him a few times, and then he ran off with my dogs. I barely interacted with him.

As you know it is hard to figure something like this out. It could be a number of things. We really don't know why dogs do most things they do, so we work on what they do. Hopefully it was a one off bad day for Apollo.  

denise m

 I have talked with a few people whose dogs also are aggressive towards pups. I hope this was just a bad day for Apollo, but keep an eye on it.

((more hugs))

denise m

Apollo may have been resource guarding you and if he thought the pup was going to come to your call he went into guard mode. 

This was my initial thought too. Maybe he felt the need to protect his pack. You, Patty and Mo. Pack mentality changes when all of you are there.

sl2crmeg

Having been on the receiving end of a dog attack (and I don't even want to call what happened with Apollo today an attack - let's call it a scuffle!) I think you did everything right ((hugs)).

((more hugs))

Thank you. DH called it a scuffle, too. He said calling it an 'attack' sounds like Apollo ripped the puppy apart, when he only made 2 small punctures.

I just have the pit in my stomache feeling....like, getting in a car accident and it's your fault, or borrowing someone's tools and breaking them. Ugh. Guilt. Thanks Mom and Dad for bringing me up super strict Catholic!

BlackLabbie

He seemed very nice and down to earth on the phone and just said, "well, dogs will be dogs, and sometimes stuff like this happens. thanks for taking care of it.",

I think the guy was totally right when he said this.  There was nothing you could of done and you took care of it.  Now you know to be on the lookout for anything in the future.  But, don't beat yourself up over this.  Willow's been bitten on three occasions and the owners never even asked if she was OK. 

I agree with Denise--not all dogs love puppies. My female is less tolerant of them every year and while she behaves appropriately, I can tell she's uncomfortable. They just annoy her anymore. She's picky about who can touch her body (when it comes to dogs) and puppies always ignore that and she just has no patience for them jumping on her.

I think Callie's right too--black dogs are hard to read and he might have been sending out signals for awhile and the puppy either didn't get it or didn't care. Certainly I'm not blaming the puppy, but it's amazing how Ellie will hold her tail high and tilt her head down just so and puppies continue to ignore her messages while adult dogs get them. And even when she turns her back on puppies they still keep on coming. They don't have a lot going on upstairs.

And one more thing, just because I know you're doing exactly what I did about 3.5 years ago--replaying it and feeling so responsible and awful: My male dog, a shy and unsocialized guy who I adopted just a few months before this, got cornered on my couch by my darling 4-year-old niece and he bit her. Punctured her right on top of her lip. It was definitely in the my top 5 worst days of my life.

So, here's to being so very very happy it was a puppy and not a child. I wish that had been our case.

I'll have to second the fact that (and I say this with utmost love for Boxers, I do love them!!) Boxers, especially Boxer puppies, can be notoriously obnoxious little creatures. They have quite a distinct play style, in that it's all rough and tumble, persistent, and they don't really always know when to stop. Boxers are also kind of like a lot of modern Labs in that they don't tend to actually pay any attention whatsoever to other dogs' signals - it's all about me me ME to a boxer and they generally think everyone must love them. "No" is not something they have a built-in understanding of from other dogs.

Also, a classic punishment given from an older dog to a younger dog who has crossed the line is a swift, inhibited bite to the muzzle. It's a totally normal behaviour to dogs,and most dogs understand it perfectly. Normal dogs will do this quickly, effiiciently, and generally without injury. However, due to the large size difference, and possible intolerance that Apollo may have been experiencing, it could have been slightly harder than a typical bite. Then again, it's equally possible the puppy tried to move or get away and that could have been what caused further injury. Either way, one small injury, while very unfortunate, could have been much worse if you consider the strength and size of Apollo. This is why I really lean towards the injury being accidental rather than intentional, because if he didn't have good bite inhibition he would have caused a whole lot of other facial injuries with that set of carpet knives in his mouth.

If they genuinely played together for that 30-40 minutes, and Apollo was having an okay time, he wouldn't suddenly "turn and attack" another puppy. The behaviour probably looked horrific to you because he's your own dog and he's never done anything, and really some absolutely normal behaviours in dogs can look very scary, but in reality something probably built up, and he corrected the pup in the kindest and easiest way he know how, and a puncture was probably an unfortunate outcome. If this Boxer plays like most Boxer pups I know, Apollo probably tried to escape, ignore, and walk away and the pup didn't get it, so Apollo felt the need to escalate.

There is a chance, too, that Apollo's tolerance for young dogs is decreasing with age. If I remember correctly Apollo is a mature adult, correct? If this is so, it's possible that he's losing interest in the antics of young'uns and it's possible his patience is getting tried a little easier each time. But, I'm not so quick to jump to this conclusion because he did play with this dog for some time.

If it were me, I wouldn't really do much at this point. I'd keep note of it, certainly remember the events, and keep a bit of a closer eye on his interactions. It's usually something like this that reminds us as humans that we need to always keep a watch on our dogs' behaviour not only for other dogs' benefits, but for their own too. There was likely a time that it would have been good for you to step in and sort of just interrupt the Boxer's play and give Apollo some reprieve. I'm sure you'll be more alert now, which isn't a bad thing. But I wouldn't get too worried that Apollo is starting a trend just yet. He's still a good boy!!

Kim_MacMillan

There is a chance, too, that Apollo's tolerance for young dogs is decreasing with age. If I remember correctly Apollo is a mature adult, correct?

Yes, Apollo is older....maybe 8ish? He's been getting more grey on his muzzle the past 6 months or so :( . I have noticed that while he does still play, he doesn't play for as long as he used to.

I think he very well could have been done playing because he did stop and he was ignorning the pup towards the end (which is why I called them to leave).

My Dad (who has trained/hunted/owned many of dogs) said Apollo was probably just correcting because he didn't want the pup to follow him, and when the pup rolled over Apollo might've caught him harder than intended. He said Apollo generally has a 'very soft mouth' and is usually so gentle (even when playing with toys), so he was even a little surprised he punctured the pup, but he said accidents happen even in the dog world...which made me feel better (as did everyone in this thread).

I took Apollo out for a long walk this morning, just me and him, to reconnect. He laying at my feet right now, and I feel our bond is a little bit closer after going through this. I was just so shocked initially.

 You did everything right--this is not your fault.  Stuff just happens with animals sometimes.  I bet the boxer pup will be fine too.  In the first few days we owned Jack he tried to take a piece of cheese out of Sally's mouth and she freaked.  She went at him, he flipped over, and she bit him while he yelped.  She didn't go back after him and he acted like nothing had happened within a few minutes.  I, however, was a mess.  I called DH at work crying, saying that we should take Jack back to the breeder, that Sally hated him and was going to kill him, etc.  DH said to give it a few days and he was right.  Jack is great with other dogs and he and Sally are buddies.....

I called the owner Sunday afternoon. He said his pup was fine, and he said he took him to PetSmart and he was happy/playful with every dog there and wasn't fearful in the least of the dogs there. Actually, he seemed a little annoyed that I called....weird....he told me to 'stop worrying' and to 'drop it' and then he got off the phone quickly.... Well, I guess that's the last phone call he'll be getting from me!

BlackLabbie

I called the owner Sunday afternoon. He said his pup was fine, and he said he took him to PetSmart and he was happy/playful with every dog there and wasn't fearful in the least of the dogs there. Actually, he seemed a little annoyed that I called....weird....he told me to 'stop worrying' and to 'drop it' and then he got off the phone quickly.... Well, I guess that's the last phone call he'll be getting from me!

I don't know why he would be annoyed....I would have been thrilled that you called to show you care.  BUT thats okay....you did the right thing... and now you CAN drop it..both on the phone and in your head. 

I'm inclined to mostly agree with Kim's assessment, but reserve some caution.  It's also wise to consider that he did do more than bluster and actually connected, which is not necessarily as accidental as we might hope.  That doesn't mean he's bad, but it might mean that he isn't a good playmate for puppies any longer and might do better with adults.

spiritdogs

It's also wise to consider that he did do more than bluster and actually connected, which is not necessarily as accidental as we might hope. 

After my own horrific incident with my male dog, I believe this more than anything. As much as I didn't want to, I have come to embrace it completely. I really believe that dogs are THAT good with their mouths and with their biting ability.

And if this is the case, then it's OK, too. My female LOVED puppies and now she gets "tired" immediately around them. And that's fair enough for me and for her too. These days, with so many being poorly bred and many being bought and taken in my owners without waiting long enough (to leave their littermates and momma), we're bound to see more and more dog UNsavvy puppies running around.