HELP! Apollo attacked...(BlackLabbie)

BlackLabbie

He seemed very nice and down to earth on the phone and just said, "well, dogs will be dogs, and sometimes stuff like this happens. thanks for taking care of it.", he didn't pick his puppy up or baby him, just called him over to check him out (the pup was already bleeding then). I'm thinking of calling the owner this weekend to make sure the pup is OK, and to apologize again.

 Sounds like he's in good hands.  It really sounds like this was just Apollo saying "ENOUGH" a bit more forcefully than expected.

I'm learning this myself, but I will offer it to you anyway, lol  Here goes - guilt's only useful property is to motivate you to do better.  So, get a plan of action (which it sounds like you do), then let the guilt go.  It will only hurt your relationship with Apollo if you let it fester.  He's not a bad dog, and you are not a bad owner.

He's not a bad dog, and you're not a bad owner.

HE IS NOT A BAD DOG, and YOU ARE NOT A BAD OWNER.

Just wanted to make sure that was clear.     (Now where's that vodka bottle being passed around down in MC?)

 Stephanie I am so sorry for you and for Apollo and the pup.

I have no insights, just hopeful that it was a confusing isolated episode.

I don't know how old the pup is but I know that it took Bugsy some time to figure out how to play with his friend Campbell.  Campbell was very rough right from the first playdate (he was about 15-16 weeks old) and Bugsy didn't know what to do as he was only a pup.  From this experience I can say that Apollo just might have been confused about pup/non-pup.  Who knows but hopeful that neither pup nor Apollo have lasting effects.

And I know how shocking it can be when your dog who is always fun and playful suddenly does something out of character.  Bugsy still has issues with that one dog in our neighborhood and it still freaks me out when he shows that side

I don't have much to offer other than to say I think you handled it perfectly.  And, I hope that this was just a one time thing and that Apollo is OK.

calliecritturs

This is a learning curve for a young dog and he's probably not getting any "help" -- given that you were at a distance you didn't see Apollo's cues *either* so you don't know what he gave -- but I'll betcha he gave plenty.  In fact, I'd betcha that the whole play thing cooled because Apollo was tired of his crap and tried to disconnect. 

 It could be that Apollo usually solves his issues with subtle messages such as that but when pushed to far might be the type that tends to go straight from stiff, hard star to full on contact versus going through other louder more dramatic warnings such as a warning growl, air snap, ect.

 I don't think I would worry too much about this.  Apollo is a big strong dog.  If he had wanted to hurt the pup, it would have been hurt, as in chewed and punctured and slashed.  This sounds like a puppy license getting stamped "expired".  It more like a snap that happened to connect, not a fighting bite. Apollo was telling the pup to stay motionless, with his posture and raised hackles.  If the pup had stayed still, Apollo would probably have just walked off, having made his point. You have probably seen the damage a full dog bite can do.  This sounds like a restrained purposeful action, not an all out attack.

It would be interesting to see what a behavioral expert thought of this action,  Your paying the bill was generous .

miranadobe

He's not a bad dog, and you're not a bad owner.

HE IS NOT A BAD DOG, and YOU ARE NOT A BAD OWNER.

Just wanted to make sure that was clear.     (Now where's that vodka bottle being passed around down in MC?)

Completely agree with this...1000%.  It sounds like Apollo was correcting this pup and protecting his pack all at the same time. 

You know what a sweetheart my old man Buddy is.  But, he is a dog...a big black dog who is ever so protective of his land, his property and his pack.  I've talked before about his capabilities.  Once, Buddy and Codycoe (RIP) was at one point in our lives periodically antagonized by some neighbor dogs whose owners allowed to run the streets unsupervised.  After several of these incidents....and a very bad move on the antagonizing JRT who came onto our property after Buddy was in a heightened state...killed the "intruder."  Let me just say it was awful.  I won't go into the details...but Buddy is not a bad dog.  He is a dog.

You did the absolute right thing in paying for the vet bills.  It sounds like the boxer's owner is a good one as well...as hard as it may sound now....chalk it up as Apollo wathing out for his packmate and also correcting the pup who likely had outgrown his puppy license.  I also agree with Doug who mentioned that Apollo was simply correcting....he could have easily killed the pup, in an instant.

{{{hugs}}}}

I'm so sorry this happened. I know how badly you feel. My Kobi was really unpredictable around puppies. He was absolutely fine until he was about 3 yrs. He went to the park everyday, met and played with numerous puppies since he was a pup himself. He actually had never been in any sort of altercation with any dog. Then one day, seemingly out of the blue he attacked a young mastiff. I had bent down to pet the pup and Kobi came from behind me and attacked. Thankfully the pup was not hurt. I thought at the time Kobi may have been jealous.

Long story short, Kobi got worse instead of better as time went on and I had to stop bringing him to the park all together. I just could not trust him around puppies. It was a sporadic thing. Some pups he liked, some he didn't. I didn't seem to matter if they were jumping in his face of lying on their backs. I have talked with a few people whose dogs also are aggressive towards pups. I hope this was just a bad day for Apollo, but keep an eye on it.

I really, really hope this isn't just the tip of the iceberg type of thing. I keep going over, and over, and over what happend this morning. Should I have just left when the pup came? Because why would 3 adult dogs want to play with a puppy (even thought they did play)? Ugh, I just feel like I put Apollo in that position, and I never wanted to do anything like that.

DH came home and we checked Apollo over, no injuries or anything.

miranadobe

He's not a bad dog, and you're not a bad owner.

HE IS NOT A BAD DOG, and YOU ARE NOT A BAD OWNER.

Just wanted to make sure that was clear.     (Now where's that vodka bottle being passed around down in MC?)

Thank you DH came home with a 12 pack of beer...lol....he needed a beer after my frantic phone call to his work this morning!

calliecritturs

I'm going to make a quick guess -- given that this involves a black dog.  No, I'm not black dog bashing.

BUT -- it is an absolute fact that black dogs are harder to "read".  You just don't get the contrast -- particularly in the "stiffness" of a reactive posture.  The PUP MISSED IT. 

My best guess is Apollo was on his best behavior.  But the pup was being a butt -- and Apollo (and probably Molson as well) were giving off some "mind your manners vibes.  But it's PATTY who is also black, right?  And the pup bowled HER over. 

This is a learning curve for a young dog and he's probably not getting any "help" -- given that you were at a distance you didn't see Apollo's cues *either* so you don't know what he gave -- but I'll betcha he gave plenty.  In fact, I'd betcha that the whole play thing cooled because Apollo was tired of his crap and tried to disconnect. 

But then the pup made the mistake of trying to claim YOU (responding to your call himself) and Apollo decided enough was enough and the proverbial dog poop hit the fan.  But I'd bet that even when the pup gave a submissive posture it was likely accompanied by something akin to a play bow or some  response that indicated that altho he was "sorry" it was too little too late and Apollo nailed him to cement a lesson.

This^ really make sense to me, and Jeremy who just read it. He agrees with you, and so do I. We are still both so stunned that this happend.

BlackLabbie

I really, really hope this isn't just the tip of the iceberg type of thing. I keep going over, and over, and over what happend this morning. Should I have just left when the pup came? Because why would 3 adult dogs want to play with a puppy (even thought they did play)? Ugh, I just feel like I put Apollo in that position, and I never wanted to do anything like that.

DH came home and we checked Apollo over, no injuried or anything.

I totally get why you're questioning the how and why of it all, but I really don't see how you could have anticipated a problem. Apollo hasn't had issues of any kind before. What I guess I'm wondering now is if it's safe to assume this was an isolated incident? Should you only be cautious with puppies or certain types of dogs. It's a tough issue to face. I went thru it with Sassy for a long time. At first I thought it was just other females, then small dogs, and eventually I realized I couldn't really let my guard down in any situation. I'm not saying that you're in the same boat, but I just don't want you to think in too narrow of terms. Is this dog park a place you go to often?

cakana

Is this dog park a place you go to often?

Yes, we go around 5 days per week. Usually around 8:30-9:00am, because there's rarely anybody there (maybe 1 or 2 other dogs, but it's not crazy like in the early morning or after 5pm).

I do feel like I'm going to watch him closer with puppies now. I don't want to 'ruin' anybody's puppy.

No you should not have taken your bunch out when the pup got there, this is not your fault. And you are doing everything right by paying the vet bill and being so concerned with the puppy and the situation.  I think it would be a very nice jesture to call over the weekend....probably make you feel better too.  

I kind of think its a lesson to us all. Dog parks are fun... I was on a committee to build the one in my neighborhood... thought it was a great idea. BUT when I go there I am very tense... some dogs are rougher than others...some are a pain in the butt...and you just never know what a dog is thinking...not theirs our ours!  I do so understand why there are people out there that won't take their dog to a dog park.

Another thing comes to mind... the trainer that I took Gibson to told me once to stay away from people that have more than one dog with them.....that sometimes when there are 2 or 3 dogs together...it spell trouble for the one that is not part of them.

TRY to not feel quilty and TRY to forgive Apollo.

dyan

Another thing comes to mind... the trainer that I took Gibson to told me once to stay away from people that have more than one dog with them.....that sometimes when there are 2 or 3 dogs together...it spell trouble for the one that is not part of them.

Yeah, I'm wondering about the pack-mentality of my 3. They're very, very close. They're friendly with other dogs and have no problems playing or socializing. But, maybe Apollo saw the way the puppy was with Patty and decided enough is enough. The pup did get over excieted at that point (he kept jumping all over Patty, she couldn't even get up). But, after that everything seemed to cool down.

 What if any interaction did you have with the pup before this happened?

EDIT TO ADD: I'm not trying to make this sound like you did something wrong, but I know with Kobi, I made a point of not making a fuss over any puppies. Apollo may have been resource guarding you and if he thought the pup was going to come to your call he went into guard mode.