Suggestions for Gibby and a baby PLEASE

AgileGSD

 An added bonus may be that if you can make Gibby a model citizen, your son's wife may be more comfortable bringing the baby around.

Please know.....she HAD a model citizen in their Great Dane...... she hated him. No reason to think she will like mine. 

 He has been kenneled a few times for surgery and comprehensive exams at the vet, and he did okay...but no doubt they were stressful. I work at a vet, there are a lot of dogs that don't do well in kennels and there are some that are so okay in them.  There are dogs whos owners say " he will be upset in the cage" and who do absolutley fine......and then there are dogs that their owners say  "he is a crate dog...he sleeps in a crate" and barks the whole time he is there to the point that he ends up in isolation because he is so upset.

But seriously...I guess there are those that would agree and disagree...but I don't think a dog should be kept away from company, do you?  A dog should be behaved no doubt, but do we want to lock our dogs up when we have company? 

dyan

But seriously...I guess there are those that would agree and disagree...but I don't think a dog should be kept away from company, do you?  A dog should be behaved no doubt, but do we want to lock our dogs up when we have company? 

 With all due respect, you were considering sedating him to help with his behavior around guests. Teaching him to tolerate being confined or barricaded, as well as teaching him a solid stay and some impluse control could save a lot of stress for everyone involved. I didn't suggest that your son's wife would ever like Gibby, just that working on teaching him some basics could make her more comfortable with bringing the baby over. I'm not sure I can really blame a non-dog person for having concerns about bringing a young baby into a home with an over exuberant giant breed dog that can't be physically controlled or contained within the house.

 I personally don't have strong feelinsg one way or another as far as if dogs should or shouldn't be "locked up" while there is company. For us it depends on the company and the situation. I do think dogs should be able to be confined if need be though, for everyone's sanity. If you strongly feel your dog should be free to mingle with guests and do as he pleased, I suppose your choices are to only have people visit who like your dog. Then accept that some people, even family may not be comfortable visiting much because of the dog (even if you know he is just a big, goofy happy boy).

dyan

but I don't think a dog should be kept away from company, do you?  A dog should be behaved no doubt, but do we want to lock our dogs up when we have company? 

Again, it works for me, but my dog isn't predictable.  But, it wasn't meant as a permanent solution for Gibby.  MHO, it's better than giving him something. 

 I too tend to fall into the "separate the dog from guests for now and train for later" camp and I wholeheartedly agree that confining or similarly restricting his movements around non-dog friendly guests is waaaay better than sedating him! 

It really sounds like you're in between a rock and a hard place because of your feelings about any sort of management - you've shot down all suggestions thus far other than daycare the day or so before the big day, so I'm not sure what kind of insight you're looking for. 

When you have a big, rambunctious dog who is lacking a bit in self control with new people, you only have a few options: free run of the house with guests (i.e. the "love me, love my dog" approach), confinement of some sort away from guests (crate, kennelling, baby gating), tethering or leashing around guests with someone to reinforce good behavior and interrupt bad, and I suppose drugging the dog (which imo seems to be *really* ignoring the dogs' needs).

I'm a dog person and I *hate* going to someone's house where they have large, unruly, and unrestrained dogs because it really impacts the quality of the visit - I can't imagine how upsetting that experience could be for a non-dog person who is in charge of keeping a baby safe.

Oh gosh... I guess I am coming off sounding unappreciative or  I don't like anyones suggestions. I'm sorry because I do appreciate everyone taking the time to help. I am not "shooting down" suggestions...in fact, I intend to keep a leash on him at all times....and of course I intend for my DH to be at the other end of that leash as I am preparing food ( in spite of my joking about how he is "Mr Watch TV" )....however I guess I did not say that to you guys...sorry that was my mistake.  As long as I have had dogs I have let a leash drag when there was a reason to think I might have to grab it in a moment.  

I don't have a crate anymore, he hasn't been in one for quite a while now, I was never able to confine him in that crate without worrying about him...how good can it be for this dog to be so upset being in a crate that he would bark, slobber and cry the whole time ( which he did when we went out and the whole entire night while I was trying to crate train him ), causing the whole bottom of the crate to be soaked, it actually rusted and him overheating in it. I put him in it when I first brought him home at 8 weeks old. I finally took the crate down this past summer... because at this point he is so strong. Before I got Gibby I almost took a Dane in Michigan, and  one criteria to take her was to NOT crate her...she was terrified of crates and had two very large scars on her from what she did to herself getting out of that crate, breaking it in the process.

Barricading with the babygate suggestion would be a good one if you have a dog that the babygate would hold back. This is a giant dog. The baby gate holds him back when there is no one in the house... he could knock it down then but has no reason to, but trying to keep him behind it when he is excited and happy to see people would only cause more stress because we would be constantly going back to put him back behind it.

As far as the Benadryl...I didn't honestly think of that as sedating the dog at all....I could ask my vet for something to really sedate him but dont' want him knocked out.   And don't they use things for show dogs to help keep them calm a bit?  They do, and I think it kind of says that some dogs need a little more help in keeping them calm... isn't that true?  Maybe not but I am saying that is what I see.

Lori, I understand what you are saying too....but I guess the key words were " it is more relaxing for Willow when kept away from company."   Believe me, if I thought I could put Gibby in my bedroom...or another one without him scratching down the door, it WOULD be easier on me.

I guess I made Gibby sound like a horrible untrained dog.  I have worked with him from day one and continue. I do see that I need to work even more as he gets older. He knows commands but when he gets excited its harder for him. As he gets older, he is getting better...but he is not the perfect gentleman as I would like him to be...but its not for the lack of trying.  After having a dog that I worried might bite someone before ( Bubby ) I am happy to have a friendly dog that I don't worry about, and I am afraid that stressing him out by keeping him away from people will change that, as it did the dog that bit my sister in law.  If he were a smaller dog....I probably would not be here writing at all.

Honestly..I am not shooting down ideas....I am explaining why some might not work for him.

Dyan, Gibby does not sound horribly untrained. But it does sound like you do let him have his way in deciding what he will do more than what you want him to do.

And I understand the situation. We get very little company, have no friends with small children or babies, so how do you train a dog for company?

Train for other things. Kord knows that he is allowed to bark when someone comes to the front door, but then he is to go to his crate and wait until we say it is OK. Anyone walking into this house knows that command and they are encouraged to use it. It works too, even my neighbors kids who come over time to time use this command and he obeys.

You need to get him use to being by himself in another room without you. It is not easy, and trust me I know. And here is something else to consider, he is going to make enough "carrying on" noise as he can, but you have to realize it is all show. We discovered that Kord did that all the way up until we actually left the driveway. Our neighbor next door listened in, said he was howling and barking all the way up till then, then he was quiet. We came home and he was sleeping on the bed. He buffaloed us for a long long time. Instead of crating when we leave now, he is just locked out of the living room due to the front window being as large as it is and the access to it. He still pitches a fit, but does settle down. The thing is not to let him have his way.

So my suggesting is..............

 Take the door off on that other room and replace it with something like this.

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=307927-78360-92023052&lpage=none

Truley

Train for other things. Kord knows that he is allowed to bark when someone comes to the front door, but then he is to go to his crate and wait until we say it is OK. Anyone walking into this house knows that command and they are encouraged to use it. It works too, even my neighbors kids who come over time to time use this command and he obeys.

Yes...thats a good idea.  Gibby does not bark but he greets at the door and tends to jump so we are training to keep him down..... I should be training him to stay away until I say OK,,,which is a command that he also knows.   We do have company...and we do have people that drop in..but we don't have any kids come...but I do walk him everyday and we stop to get petted by anyone that wants to pet him.... my neighbors just had their 2 young grandaugthers over during the summer and he just loved them...they couldn't wait until we walked out of door so they could pet him.  Gibby would SIT to get petted by them... we  did teach him that but he isn't always trustworthy on doing that...or he sits and gets so excited that he jumps up unexpectedly, so we are always talking to him, reminding him he must stay down. THAT is something I need to work on a lot because he is pretty....and people love him and come to pet him all the time..... I have had people  pull their car to the side and get out to say what a beautiful dog he is....believe me...he eats all that up.   I suppose in the end that is not good for him...but after having Bubblegum who was afraid of people and  would bark at them if they came by her.... I am happy that he is friendly.

Incidentally...when we leave we either barricade him ( when we are to be gone longer than about an hour or so ) or leave him without saying a word when we will be gone a short time. When we barricade him we stuff old bones and a kong with things like we did when he was crated... when we don't barricade him...he runs to the kitchen window ( which is the front of the house ) and watches us leave... when we come home he is still there watching us pull in.  In the summer when DH and I walked to the neighbor church picnic.... our neighbor said while we were gone he stood there the whole time and several times they heard him crying, as our windows were open a bit.  He is a good dog or I should say has become a good dog,  but he is a very excited dog, and when he is excited its hard to settle him back down.... if you yell at him...he gets even more excited.

dyan

I don't have a crate anymore, he hasn't been in one for quite a while now, I was never able to confine him in that crate without worrying about him...how good can it be for this dog to be so upset being in a crate that he would bark, slobber and cry the whole time ( which he did when we went out and the whole entire night while I was trying to crate train him ), causing the whole bottom of the crate to be soaked, it actually rusted and him overheating in it. I put him in it when I first brought him home at 8 weeks old. I finally took the crate down this past summer... because at this point he is so strong.

 This is where training comes in though. Instead of just locking him in the crate and hoping for the best, spend time working on training him to be comfortable in the crate. Here is a how-to guide for that: http://www.dragonflyllama.com/%20DOGS/Levels/LevelBehaviours/TL3Crate.html

dyan

Barricading with the babygate suggestion would be a good one if you have a dog that the babygate would hold back. This is a giant dog.

 http://www.bigbreeddog.com/product/EPP-PG-7400

http://www.petstreetmall.com/Pet-Gates/5501/491/

http://www.petstreetmall.com/Pet-Gates/4092/491/

dyan

   And don't they use things for show dogs to help keep them calm a bit?  They do, and I think it kind of says that some dogs need a little more help in keeping them calm... isn't that true? 

  Where do you get the idea that show dogs are given "things" to help keep them calm?

dyan

I guess I made Gibby sound like a horrible untrained dog. 

  You didn't make him sound like a horrible dog but you do sound like you expect very, very little of him behavior wise other than being friendly. And that is fine - he's your dog and you are the one that has to live with him. That said, you may also have to live with seeing less of some family because you expect your guests to be as understanding and tolerant of what Gibby wants as you and your husband are.

dyan

and I am afraid that stressing him out by keeping him away from people will change that, as it did the dog that bit my sister in law. 

 Why do you believe that dog bit because he was generally separated from company? Being put away when guests come over doesn't make dogs aggressive. In fact, most dogs are less aggressive to visitors when they don't have to see them coming in the door.

  Dyan, my toy sized dogs (all of mine are under 20 lbs) can go over or through a baby gate, with relative ease. Emma can open crates, from the inside and out. They all know how to get out of the fence, but they don't. Barrier training with a baby gate is fairly easy to do. It may not work, in the heat of the moment, when he's OMGSOHAPPY, but you take him by the collar, tell him he's not allowed, and put him back. Thanksgiving day may not be your best time to practice it, because you don't have time in less than a week to firmly instill the behavior (and not even CLOSE to time for proofing!), but it is completely doable.

AgileGSD

Where do you get the idea that show dogs are given "things" to help keep them calm?

Bubblegum was a show dog....and that is what I was told...along with a few other choice things..........

AgileGSD

but you do sound like you expect very, very little of him behavior wise other than being friendly. And that is fine - he's your dog and you are the one that has to live with him. That said, you may also have to live with seeing less of some family because you expect your guests to be as understanding and tolerant of what Gibby wants as you and your husband are.

I checked back...I don't see where I said any of this to be honest. I said we work with him every day...said we have to. Said I have been slacking a little though...need to start worked more with him again..and now that I am not working, I will. Said while I worked my DH was in charge and he does what he wants. And basically....if I expected Gibby to be able to do what he wanted to and everyone should tolerate him,  I would not have started this conversation to begin with.

I had a dane/shepherd that would not walk past a yardstick if it were laying on the floor being used as a barricade....so I know all about a good dog that listens...and I sure hope to have Gibby be that dog one day. Again, we do use a baby gate for a barricade, he can and has knocked it over if only by accident, and that is with something on the other side holding it up. He is behind that barricade quite often...just not when there was company because there never was a need for it.  We do not let him bother company and jump on them and have to tolerate him. But there was never a baby here with a mother that don't like dogs.

AgileGSD

Why do you believe that dog bit because he was generally separated from company?

I really do thank everyone for taking time to answer...to give their opinions. Sorry  for those that think I am not listening or unappreciative.

 I do wish these guys have been bringing the baby over from the time he was born.... I think it would have been a lot easier....I will be taking Gibby to day care for the day before.... I have drummed it in DHs head he will have to keep Gibby by his side and not taking his eye off of him for even a second....we will keep Gibby away from the baby as we do his mother..... I do wish he were allowed to sniff the babys head perhaps...see what he is all about and then maybe he would not be as curious as he might be.   Keeping him totally away won't help for the next time.

 It would be nice if he could say hi, then be told to go settle down. They do like to see, but especially as the baby grows, I'd imagine it's a lot easier to avoid the accidental bump from the giant dog who isn't used to being around toddlers. Mom not letting him even sniff the baby makes it so much harder!

jennie_c_d

 It would be nice if he could say hi, then be told to go settle down. They do like to see, but especially as the baby grows, I'd imagine it's a lot easier to avoid the accidental bump from the giant dog who isn't used to being around toddlers. Mom not letting him even sniff the baby makes it so much harder!

He is not a toddler yet...he does'nt even crawl yet...so I don't have to worry about keeping Gibby somewhere and the baby coming to him..... we just have to keep Gibby from the baby.  

Unfortunately from what I saw...dear sweet gentle Ollie was not allowed to sniff this baby...so I don't expect my dog to be able to.

I'd also put out there that sedation is risky...for a Giant. They do NOT take to ACE or other tranq's well and your vet could well OD him trying to guessimate how much will put him out. There is literature on the net about having to be VERY careful with Giant's in regards to trang's and anesthesia.

dyan

Because that is what the their dogs vet told them at that time. It has ALWAYS stuck with me...and I do believe that could be very true. It makes sense.

Dyan, FWIW, without knowing all the details, I think it was a lack of socialization that caused that bite.  And, not being kept away from company. 

What I'm trying to say, that yes, a dog might bite if thrown in with people with no people skills.  But, if your(general your) dog is well socialized putting him a room alone for a few hours is not going to make him aggressive. 

Thanks Gina.......must say..after working at the vet clinic for nearly 4 years and seeing what they do to a lot of dogs....I would always stay away from things like ACE.......and that is one drug that is definitely suggested to NOT give a Dane.

Hey Gina....thought of you a while ago.....are you still a Browns fan?  Did you see what they just did this afternoon?