Advice on Dog-Dog Aggression

Chuffy

DPU, what are you saying - that the behaviour you want is "calmness" and the reward is the "scary thing going away".  Where is the A in ABC?

Exactly!  The dog wants the scarey thing to go away and that is the reward for being calm.  There is a point in proximity where the dog becomes aware of the scarey thing, stress/fear is at the minimal state and dog does not react.  There is another point in proximity where the dog reacts.  Prior to that 2nd point of proximity, reward the dog for the calm behavior by making the ickey thing go away.  PollyAnna taught me this with her fear of being close to humans.  This is OC and a confidence-builder.

DPU

Chuffy

DPU, what are you saying - that the behaviour you want is "calmness" and the reward is the "scary thing going away".  Where is the A in ABC?

Exactly!  The dog wants the scarey thing to go away and that is the reward for being calm.  There is a point in proximity where the dog becomes aware of the scarey thing, stress/fear is at the minimal state and dog does not react.  There is another point in proximity where the dog reacts.  Prior to that 2nd point of proximity, reward the dog for the calm behavior by making the ickey thing go away.  PollyAnna taught me this with her fear of being close to humans.  This is OC and a confidence-builder.

But what if the goal is to teach the dog that the scary thing is not scary?  Like if the dog is scared of something common, something that can't "go away" every time the dog is in proximity... I agree that you reward as the dog notices the scary thing and before it reacts, but I want the scary thing to become less scary.  Rather than it going away, if the dog still shows a fearful reaction I'd move the dog farther away and start again.

DPU

Chuffy

DPU, what are you saying - that the behaviour you want is "calmness" and the reward is the "scary thing going away".  Where is the A in ABC?

Exactly!  The dog wants the scarey thing to go away and that is the reward for being calm.  There is a point in proximity where the dog becomes aware of the scarey thing, stress/fear is at the minimal state and dog does not react.  There is another point in proximity where the dog reacts.  Prior to that 2nd point of proximity, reward the dog for the calm behavior by making the ickey thing go away.  PollyAnna taught me this with her fear of being close to humans.  This is OC and a confidence-builder.

Does this change the dog's emotional response to the scary thing as well?  I mean, once the dog realises they have a degree of control over the situation, they can "make" it go away - does it become less scary to them? 

Chuffy

Does this change the dog's emotional response to the scary thing as well?  I mean, once the dog realises they have a degree of control over the situation, they can "make" it go away - does it become less scary to them? 

Yes, with each trial you can get closer and closer to the scarey thing without a reaction.  For the fearful PollyAnna, I kept close measurement on how far she was from me and with each session, I would slightly shorter the lead.

DPU

cockamamie

New word for the day?

Since this is a family forum, I can't used the words that have come to my mind to describe some posts I have seen. I wished I had thought of that word.

FWIW, I see SD's point, too. Basic associative learning. Identifying a previously scary stimulus as now a predictor of good things. And I got Shadow used to meeting stranger dogs calmly by working at a far range and getting closer and closer. So maybe, it was both. And treating for calm behavior in the presence of non-calm dogs, too. To the point that a loose Scottie charged him 3 times before he uttered one bark back. Not bad for cocakamamie, eh?

ron2

DPU

cockamamie

New word for the day?

Old word. 

"Cockamamie" (meaning "crazy," "confused" or "ridiculous";) is a grand word in danger of extinction through neglect. "Cockamamie" is an inherently funny word -- the word itself sounds preposterous, as if invented by a cartoonist. But "cockamamie" actually sprang from one of the great popular fads of the 19th century, now long forgotten. "Decalcomania," from the French for "tracing craze," was the practice of transferring colored designs to the skin from damp paper -- what we call today "decals" or "temporary tattoos." The "mania" began in France in the mid-1800s, and quickly became the rage among children everywhere. As a harmless but immensely silly fad, "decalcomania," and its linguistic offspring "cockamamie," came to mean something so transparently phony or absurd (as in "cockamamie alibi";) that one ought to doubt the sanity of the source.

Excellent etimology and thanks for the definiiton. My post and that of SD are ridiculous and crazy, according to your elucidation. From the root of a french word meaning a craze, or fad, if you will.

Now don't get cockahoop on me.  (there is suppose to be a dash "-" before and after the "a";)

This reaction is definetly caused by fear. He cannot move away because he is on the leash and he is scared by it. He may bark or lunge if you go closer because he thinks that by being "scary" you cannot tell he is afraid and the other thing will go away. What they were barking at would go away anyway but he thinks its because he barked or jumped at another dog.

Having the expierence of another dog be calm and relaxed will work wonders. Head collars like the Halti and clickers will help you. Or you could ask your vet about a dog behaviorist.

A Halti or Gentle Leader will help because you can then turn Roger away from the other dog and as soon as he turns away do a click and a treat. Walk backwards to try to make him look to you so then click and treat. also look at hubpages.com/hub/leash_lunge

DPU

Now don't get cockahoop on me.

Too late. I've been a little cockahoop in regard to some other things not related to this forum. Namely, my weight loss.