my girls just had a fight!!! HELP!

If you had to "pry" them apart and the fight was loud, but no blood was drawn, then it sounds like this was a fight over the food resource, or their proximity to the food, which can be the precipitor of a fight over status as one dog matures.  Your St. Bernard is at the age when she will be trying to determine her place in the pack, and your other dog, as the resident dog, may feel like the new dog is a usurper.  The best hope that you have in deterring any recurring chaos between them is for you to be the ultimate leader, which is why you got the suggestion about NILIF.  If you are in complete control of the household, and all their resources, they have less to fight about.  That's not to say that they won't, and you do need to be vigilant when you have multiple females, but supporting the wrong dog can be a huge mistake - so concentrate on being a leader to both dogs, but don't play faves between them.  It's safest to feed them separately behind closed doors, and don't leave stuff they could fight over laying around.  

I've only had 1 fight and it was a raw bone between my female bulldog and male Golden. It was play on the goldens thinking and resource guarding on the female.  She got a puncture to her muzzle.  Even tho I was supervising outside, in the second I turned my back, she went for his bone. Lesson learned
, really separate the 2 while chewing - 5 feet not far enough.
 
The other time was the bulldog got too close to my moms dog and foodbowl, she received a puncture under her eye.  Lesson learned, we always separate while eating now and put moms dogs bowl up when we visit..

ORIGINAL: Michelle4474

Hello everyone,
I have a 4 year old lab x pitbull and a 2 year old St. Bernard.  I was cleaning out the closet that their food is kept in and their dog food was sittin by the wall.  Then all of a sudden they just started fighting.  My fiance had to grab both of them and pry them apart.  It was a pretty emotional thing for both of us.  We separated the dogs for like 20 mins and then reintroduced them.  They are acting kinda strange with each other now.  The st. bernard is really timid.  They went out side together and we heard a bark... and the pitbull x came in and her hackles were up.  We are really worried.  Are they just mad at each other???  Thanks

 

ORIGINAL: cakana

Hi Michelle,
Sorry to hear what you're going thru, and unfortunately, I have some experience in this area too.  I have 2 females and the fighting between them is what brought me to this forum a few years back.  For us, things had been much better for the last year or so, but they had another fight several weeks ago.   It's late, so I'll be brief, but I'll tell you this:  the fights can be serious and yes, it may be that you couldn't separate them.  I know I can't with our 2, so they're never allowed to be together unless my DH is home.  When they've had a fight, their behavior around each other is quite strained, so we keep them completely separated for some time, maybe a few days even.  We feed them in separate locations, where they can't even see each other.  Nothing that can be construed as valuable (toys, treats, etc.) is left out for them to fight over.  Having said all that, there have been fights that there was no obvious trigger (resource), and that is why I never allow our girls to be together when I'm alone.  When they've gotten into a fight, there's no way I could stop it with a shout or anything of that nature.  Seriously, only pulling them off each other will end it and then you need to be able to get one of them to retreat.  My older lab is best at that, so she's the one we can release first.  Left to their own devices, they'd head right back to each other to finish things off.  I don't understand all the psychological parts of this situation, and I got exhausted laying awake trying to figure it out, so we just micro-manage both dogs and do the very best we can.  I wouldn't wish this on anyone, so I'm sorry you've experienced it.  I hope that this is some some fluke for you and things settle down, but based on what you're describing, I'd suggest you be hyper-alert and if in doubt, keep them separated.  It stinks, but it can be done. 

 
Same advice for both
 
It seems that the only one that has not move on is you, they feel the "tension" in the air that you give to the enviroment for being nervous about the fights, they feel that tension and thats the only trigger they need sometimes, they move on really quickly but if you are thinking about it often then they will still do what they do
 
The key is not to "feel bad" about them of being "emotional" because the fight, that only makes it worse, they dont know why you are "emotional" about, of course you have to take care of the situation but if you take care of it and at the same time you are nervous, emotional or fearful then your level of success wont be the same

It seems that the only one that has not move on is you, they feel the "tension" in the air that you give to the enviroment for being nervous about the fights, they feel that tension and thats the only trigger they need sometimes, they move on really quickly but if you are thinking about it often then they will still do what they do

The key is not to "feel bad" about them of being "emotional" because the fight, that only makes it worse, they dont know why you are "emotional" about, of course you have to take care of the situation but if you take care of it and at the same time you are nervous, emotional or fearful then your level of success wont be the same

 
I don't doubt for a minute that you're right about my level of tension being a factor in the fighting.  I'd say "step into my shoes and tell me how you'd feel" but I don't want to hear that you've experienced the same or worse.  For the 4+ years we've had them both, I've heard it all...let them work it out, treat one as the alpha to establish order, etc..etc...etc.  I can tell you when a fight ends, and for days after, my older dog (she's 11) is quite fearful of the younger dog.  It may not be the "right" thing to do, but I feel I owe it to her to protect her and if it means keeping them separated, then that's what I will do.  We did meet with a behaviorist and she advised the same thing.  She even said "when you separate them, make sure that they can't see each other".  Some of it is selfish on my part too though.  If I can't walk in my yard with both of them near me without fear of a fight, then it's not happening.  As I said, I wouldn't wish this on anyone, but if I could, I'd wish it on someone who is (or thinks they are) better equipped to handle it, such as yourself.

ORIGINAL: cakana

I wouldn't wish this on anyone, but if I could, I'd wish it on someone who is (or thinks they are) better equipped to handle it, such as yourself.

No problem [] i wish i could go to your home and help you; actually i had an episode 2 weeks ago, i was dog sitting a retreiver and a schnauzer, they were eating lunch but i noticed they were doing it as fast as they could, of course that when the first one finished (the retreiver) went right away to the plate of the other one (maybe my friend does not check on them while they are eating) they just saw eachother and started growling, i knew that if i was going to "let them work it out" i would be having a really bad fight in the middle of my kitchen so i grabbed the retreiver that was closer to me by the collar and separate him away from the schnauzer and at the same time i was body blocking both of them to get closer to eachother

What happened next? i let the schnauzer to finish his meal and when he finished i let the retreiver free like if nothing happened before and they seemed like the good "brothers" they always are, of course in the next lunch time i just placed myself between both of them to avoid one to get to the other's food, the retreiver finished first again but when he turned around he saw me right in front of him like saying "you are not going anywhere till the schnauzer finishes" so the retreiver just sat down and waited with me [], the schnauzer was looking at us a couple times to make sure that he was safe eating and we didnt have a fight again []

The schnauzer trusted me that i was going to keep the retreiver away, the retreiver knew he was not going anywhere, after separating them to avoid the fight i didnt have to touch them at all to make them be away from eachother while eating, just body blocking and the right attitude to let them know that they needed to follow MY rules in MY house even when they were not my own dogs

My friend called me after the weekend to ask me i f i did something with her dogs since they were so well behaved, i just tell her that i walked them daily (which she does not) and i set discipline, boundries and limitations

If you know you are in control and you feel you are then the dogs will feel it too, if you feel you cant be in control the dogs will know and they will go pass those boundries, i know is hard but if you trust in yourself the dogs will respect more the lines you draw

they just saw eachother and started growling, i knew that if i was going to "let them work it out" i would be having a really bad fight in the middle of my kitchen

 
It may sound odd, but I'd be really pleased if either of my dogs ever growled or showed outward signs before a fight, but they almost never do.  An example - Buffy, older lab, is checking out something in some honeysuckle vines out back.  Sassy, younger lab, is sitting quietly by us on the patio.  Buffy dives into the vines (mouse ?) and Sassy runs to investigate and in a flash, they're locked in a fight.  Fortunately, my DH was there, but it took him pulling Sassy and me pulling Buffy to separate them.  They've rarely had a fight that didn't result in an injury to one or both of them.  Fortunately, none have been life threatening, but I'm not sure what would happen if we weren't there.  Managing situations like you describe are pretty straightforward.  It's when you see them running and playing together and then in the blink of an eye, they're at each other, that makes it stressful.

It seems that they are not getting the part of "fights are not allowed" in your house, they just do and you separate them and thats it, it seems you need to increase the dicipline a notch so they can realize that in your house fights are not good, maybe they both want to be in a higher level in the pack, thats why i always say that you should be number one and the rest number 2, no number 3 or 4 because they will then fight for it

Hey guys,
Thanks again for all the help you have given me.  I am just writing to update you guys on the situation.  Our dogs use to play fight in the living room.  (growl roll around..... we just consider it play fighting) and they haven't done that sense their fight on Sat night.  They are getting along well now..... still not perfect.... it seems their interactions are quick and to the point.  We took them to the frield we always take them to on the Sunday morning (day after fight) and they ran around together smelling everything like the fight never happened.  They even both jumped on our bed in the morning and cuddled with us.  Our St. Bernard isn't spayed so we are looking into that now.  Our St. Bernard seems now like she just lets our Pitbull x do whatever she wants... almost like she is afriad of the pitbull... or maybe the St. Bernard just knows she's boss (the pitbull)... LOL!!!  Thanks again for all the help.... i barely slept at all on Sat night because I was sooo worried they weren't ever going to be normal again and i'd have to get rid of one of them.... which I don't even know if I could do.  (good job they have good grandparents who live on a farm!!!!  LOL)  Anyways, One more thank you!!!!  have a nice holiday!!!
Michelle

Hey guys,
Thanks again for all the help you have given me. I am just writing to update you guys on the situation. Our dogs use to play fight in the living room. (growl roll around..... we just consider it play fighting) and they haven't done that sense their fight on Sat night. They are getting along well now..... still not perfect.... it seems their interactions are quick and to the point.

 
Michelle,
I'm glad that things have been calm.  I just wanted to mention that my dogs were exactly the same.  In the beginning, they'd play fight, rolling around and making a LOT of noise, but it was all in fun.  Once they had a couple of fights, they never did that again [>:] and that was 4 years ago.  They also will run and play like nothing happened shortly after a fight.  My older dog, Buffy, is a bit more on guard usually for a few days but I think that's gotten more obvious as they've had more fights.  I really just want to caution you to be aware that it might it happen again. I hope it doesn't, I really do, I just would hate for you to be caught off guard.  My girls have gone months, and most recently over a year, between fights.  It's just wise to have a plan in the event something does happen.
 
I wish you luck and hope that you never have to deal with it again.  Spaying the St. Bernard, certainly won't hurt and might help, so that's a great idea.

It may be that they settled a hierarchy issue.  Or, it could be that something is simmering under the surface.  With Pits, you must be extremely careful, since they may not start a fight, but they commonly elect to finish it.  It's hard enough to keep most female Pitties with a boy, but with a girl - if they form a dislike, you have problems.  Again, you must be the leader in the household, but don't artificially try to support one dog over the other.
FYI, spaying a female usually does little to avert aggression, and in some cases actually increases it.  It is male dogs that usually get better after a neuter.