pairing and classicly conditioning a pinch or an E-collar to be a positive

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    • Gold Top Dog
    It is absolutely possible to classically condition something.  It has happened accidentally with two different collars with my dogs.  (really more operant) My last dobe bitch was a real challenge in training.... Sweet as can be but a real "cement head" on occassion.  I had hurt my back and needed a safe way to walk her.  I opted for a halter (promise brand).  She HATED it.  Fought it for a number of minutes.  Luckily, she was incredibly good motivated.  Out came the liver.  In two weeks, the halter comes out she would run and stick her head it in.  Same dog second example, same strategy-liver.  It took 7 folks in the vets office to do her toe nails.  In six weeks using a densensitization method, she was running to the floor and putting all four feet in the air for the dremel.
     
    The current terv was often pulling severely on his collar that I worried about trach damage,  switched to a prong, he finds a link on the floor and dances around because he associates it with a walk.
     
    The principles of ABA or classical conditioning work provided one pays attention to the antecedent, the behavior and the consequence,  AND observes the impact on behavior.  
    • Gold Top Dog
    I beg to differ.  If the behavior is maintained or increased (stopping at the top of the a frame) there is a reinforcement in place.  The key is finding and breaking the behavior pattern.  A couple of ideas for consideration include putting another behavior or cue just before the peak of the A frame.  One option, is attention, have you considered turning and walking way if she stops.  This may be especially effective if there is a another dog available to receive attention and a reward that is valued by the girl on top of the A frame.  A video and watching it with some friends might help you determine what is potentially reinforcing her,,,, my guess would be attention knowing what you do and the type of dogs you work with. (herding/working competetive sport)
    • Gold Top Dog
    My ultimate goal is to see if I can make an aversive, have a positive association, but yet, still be an aversive. Now the aversives will not be used to correct major infractions. these corrections are going to be used to stimulate the dog to make minor adjustments. like run faster. sit straighter. heel with me.

     
    I think you need to talk to some experts about how to properly use an ecollar-- if your dogs are afraid of having the collar put on, and you have only been using it for harsh corrections, you're not doing it right. Try reading here: [linkhttp://www.dobbsdogs.com/library/obedience/index.html]http://www.dobbsdogs.com/library/obedience/index.html[/link]
     
    Proper use of an ecollar will I think let you achieve your goal, if I understand it correctly. When properly used the tickle from a low-level stim is simply a means to communicate to the dog that he didn't do it correctly. Very similar to the verbal "uhoh try again" marker in common use in training.