To Crate Train or not?

Since he is learning that it is okay to do his business inside the house, as long as it is on any pad that happens to be lying around >O_o;< you might have a slight bit of difficulty when you suddenly change the rules and say "ok now you can't pee in the house."

So it will probbaly be a bit more difficult than it would have been.

Crates speed up potty training and house breaking x10000000000000 lol... That is the biggest benefit... another would be that he will be safe in there when he's not being supervised.

I dont like crate training just because I would rather train them to be good in the house and that way they have full run when Im gone and do not have to be cooped up.  I just think they prefer to be able to play with their toys or each other, look out the window, lay on the bed or couch... and so on.
 
 

What happens if you need to go away on an emergency and your dog has to be kenneled?  Or stay overnite at the vet?  An upsetting sititation becomes even worse when your dog isn't crate trained.
 
Think about this for a minute.  If your house were to catch fire what would your dog do?  Most likely hide someplace.  In smoke and flames there isn't much chance of FINDING the dog.  If he is crated there is.  Now in my particular case, with my big beasts who I'm pretty sure would completely FREAK at strangely garbed men entering the house....literally FORCING their way into the house, they are so much safer crated.  They can be pulled, crate and all to safety.
 
With a pup, it's really difficult to teach them to behave in the house if you aren't there 24/7 and even the best behaved pup hits different stages and can suddenly decide to devour the sofa.  I like knowing that my crew are safe in their crates, safe and comfy when I'm gone.
 
Do you have a safe area that you can take your pup outside to potty?  Because yes, if it's ok to pee in the house sometimes, that doesn't neccessarily translate to "but ONLY on pads and ONLY when mom is away"  As long as you know for certain that your yard is "clean" (hasn't been a dog with parvo there for at least two years) he can go outside to potty.  And PLEASE get him outside, even if you have to carrry him, to be around other people.  Parvo doesn't pass through the air...it's picked up through the feet.....can be brought into the house on YOUR feet too.  More dogs die because they weren't properly socialized than of parvo.  Parvo is nothing to laugh at, but get the pup out and around PEOPLE while safely in your arms or a carry basket or SOMETHING.

There's so many good thoughts here, and each person you pose this question to will have other good recommendations. 

As for the puppy-pad training.  I got little Misty (3 pounds when she arrived here at 14 weeks old) during a very cold, harsh New England winter.  Taking her outside was not even a choice, so I puppy pad trained her in her cordoned off area of the kitchen.  She was very good at it and as I allowed her more room to roam (very slowly), she did always go back to the pads to pee and poo.  When spring came, I every so slowly, like just one foot a day, started moving the pads towards the door to the deck/backyard.  I would leave the pads in the new position for about 5 days before moving it again.  By about 10 days, I had the pad in front of the door, where I had her use it for a couple of weeks.  Then, the big change happened, I put the pad out on the deck directly outside the door, and I left the door to the deck open.  I did it that way for about 10 days.  Then, I shut the door.  She immediately started to bark for that darn door to open so she could get to her pad.  After about ten days of that, I took the pad away and when she would bark at the door, I would take her to the yard, where I had put a couple of her used pads.  The change over from pad to yard can work.  I think the mistake most people make is in trying to make the changeover too quickly and confusing the dog.  Our changeover took two months to complete. 

As for the crate training, I believe crate training is a great tool when handled properly.  I have one dog who is crate trained and one who is not.  Misty is not crate trained.  She is confined to the kitchen/family room area when we are not home.  She is very comfortable and well behaved, as that is the area she has been in since she was a pup.  And, I put a pee pad in front of the door if we are gone a long time, and she will use it if she has to.  I did not crate train her because when she came to me from the breeders, she was an all out nervous wreck when placed in a crate and was very calm when placed on a pillow in a small gated off area, which was really the size of a crate but somehow didn't have the same psychological effect on her.  I decided to not have a battle of wills with her over it and so had her penned area instead of a crate. 

Our second dog, who is 6 years old, is crate trained.  We adopted him about 6 weeks ago.  He lived in a home where the family worked, and so he was in his crate from 8:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. every day, and then again overnight.  He does not know how to live in a house.   If I leave the house for any tiny amount of time, he must be in his crate, or he becomes a nervous wreck and barks, carries on and tinkles.  This happens even if I go out to the mailbox for a moment or even just to the yard to do some work and leave him inside.  I am slowly teaching him to feel secure outside of his crate when there is no human around, but I suspect he will always need to be crated when we are not here, which is actually a good thing.  It eliminates any worries I have about the two darlings bothering one another.  He was "over" crate trained, if you know what I mean.  He spent so many hours in a crate for so many years, his front legs didn't move the way they ought to when we first got him.  They are starting to work properly now, after miles of walking.  I'm lucky in that I do not work, and so am always around to tend to the little darlings.  But, if I did work full time I believe I would enlist a dog walker to give the dogs a good 45 minute walk in the middle of each day, and perhaps have them go to dogggie day care once or twice a week. 

Well about the house catching on fire I think its a 50/50 chance either way should the dog be crate or not, you see, that only works IF the firemen are able to get to the crates... if not, well, they have no choice - they are stuck in a crate... where as if they cannot GET into the home to rescue the crate then at least the dog has the opportunity to get himself out of there somehow.  IF they CAN get inside and rescue and the dogs will run away form them, I agree that its better they are in a crate, but what if they cant?
 
Just recently a home around here caught on fire in the middle of the night and the dogs barking is what woke the homeowners and saved their lives... well they run outside (leaving the dog I guess) and by the time the firemen get there they cannot get inside to save the dog and he dies in his crate.  When I read this story I was so upset I was crying.  Now, me personally, I would have died trying to save Kayla before I left her in there.... but it does bring up the point that what if they just CANT get to them....  maybe they could save themselves.
 
I think its good and bad all around, but its probably just all good for a dog who enjoys his crate time...  

Not crate training can be dangerous.  It will be a sad day if you come home to a pup that ha chewed through and electrical cord, swallowed to much dry wall, ingested a cleaning product, or a plate of chocolate cookies.  Crate training is for the dogs safety, and your sanity.  It will serve one purpose or another for the rest of the dogs life.  Don't miss this opportunity.

I totally agree Mic... but I aslo think it can be dangerous to crate... if your dog is the type that will do those things you just mentioned while out of the crate IMO they are the kind that will be none to pleased with being IN the crate.
 
Kayla actually got out of her crate and when we got home the door was still closed.. DH pulled on it really hard and it barely moved... I know the only way she got out was to squeeze through.. and she could have killed herself by getting stuck.  Also anything at all you leave in there could become a choking hazard so to be absolutely safe you would have to leave them with nothing in there and I wouldnt want to do that. (again, this is only talking about a dog who goes crazy in there... which does go back to the question about TRAINING them, lol, because obviously the dogs Im talking about are not crate trained at all...)  I guess Im just not successful at it, and am home so often and have them in bed with us at night... I just never did get them to the point where they enjoyed it so I quit.
 
It is of course only my thoughts on the subject, but I think there is good and bad about each... bu I do agree that if the dog enjoys it and does not go crazy then theres certainly nothing wrong with it. 

And the whole what if we have to leave them in boarding is totally true... that will be a problem and its my fault.   I dont think we ever will b/c the whole family is as big of dog lovers as we are and will always watch them... but still, its a good reason to get them crate trained in itself.

Crate training is a great way to train, as we all agree.  BUT, I don't think it's for every dog, and the only person who can determine that is the dog's owner.  Except for Misty, any dog I've ever owned has started out in a crate, and over the course of it's first two years was weaned from the crate into the household.  I never allowed a dog freedom until they had earned it and were reliable, 100%.  We've never had anything destroyed or any accidents as a result of setting the dog free, so we seem to have good sense about when the dog is ready. 
 
As for them being safe in a fire, that's not always so.  Think of the member of this board who had a tragic fire in her house last year.  Had her dogs been in crates, they would not have been able to escape the level of the home where the fire was located and run to the basement.  As it was, her darling Chelsea, who did not know how to go down stairs, was trapped on the floor where the fire was located and tragically passed away as a result. 
 
I do think that with more than one dog, crate training is an absolute necessity.  And, so I'm grateful that our adoptee arrived very well crate trained or we'd be in a very complicated spot right now. 
 
As for the visits to the doctor and required crating during health problems, that was not a problem for Misty even though she is not crate trained.  She had two surgeries last year, and had no problem in crating at those times.  I think the stress of being at the vets makes the dog appreciate the soft, warm crate and whether or not they are previously crate trained becomes irrelevant. 
 
Just my experience and opinions, which differ from others.  That's what makes the world go round.  

ORIGINAL: loveukaykay
I totally agree Mic... but I aslo think it can be dangerous to crate... if your dog is the type that will do those things you just mentioned while out of the crate IMO they are the kind that will be none to pleased with being IN the crate...........

..........bu I do agree that if the dog enjoys it and does not go crazy then theres certainly nothing wrong with it. 

I don't understand this.  If you properly crate train the dog (by doing it slowly, being consistent, and giving the dog special things in the crate like stuffed kongs) and not just suddenly toss it in a crate one day, the dog won't "go crazy."  >O.o<

My corgi pup is 15 weeks old, and if I left him out of the crate at this point, he probably would be destructive and could end up hurting himself.  If they don't get into the habit of doing things, like chewing stuff up and not getting caught because you're not around, there's a far better chance that they won't do things like that when they're older, simply because they never got used to running loose and destroying things.

How are you gonna teach them NOT to tear stuff up if you aren't around to prevent them from developing the habit?  That's what crates are for....to safely contain your dog.

Glenda, I agree with you 100%.  I guess my situation is different, in that I am home full time,  When we first got Misty, I was working part time, and she went to work with me every day at the church I worked at.  I had her pen set up in my office with her tinkle pads.  For exercise, she ran laps around the sanctuary.  Now, I'm pretty much always here, with a few hours out of the house here and there for my volunteer activities.  During those times, Teddy is in his crate and Misty in her confined area.  When I first got Misty, I spent about 8 weeks with her, 24/7 and it was a productive training time.  Now, I'm concentrating on Teddy, although I believe he will always need his crate to feel comfortable, and that works fine for us. 

Well, that was kind of my point... I am always home... very rarely would they go into the crate which is why I have failed terribly at properly crate training... I just didnt find it that important. 
 
Thats what I said, IF you properly crate train its fine, I didnt do that.

I also have chosen not to crate train any of my dogs.All three of them have access to the living room, kitchen and dog door when they're left alone( all other doors are shut), which is not long at all seeing as I don't work. T ootsie, my corgi, who is almost two, has had free run with the other dogs since around 1 yr. of age. When she was a baby she was gated in the kitchen. She has never been destructive.Dingo my heeler was left with access to the whole house as a pup and the worst he ever did was drag all the dirty clothes out the dog door into the backyard. In case of fire, the crate is practical, but what about my kitty?All three of the dogs have been boarded and they were fine with the crate. Also at the groomers she uses crates and they do fine in them.