"Separation strategy.....................

I agree that some people can not do it themselves but like you said, thats when you need professional help, i dont think it would be humane if my mom "rehome" me if i dont get along with my brother,

 
Ah, but see if your brother was continually beating you senseless every time he saw you or was trying to stab you with his fork, I assure you the child would likely not be living in the home with you (or at least I certainly hope not if the parents have any sense, but that's an entirely different matter).
 
You can't equate brothers/sisters not getting along to severe dog aggression in which injury results or is attempted (which is the usual situation for recommending separation). Two very different things, with two very different outcomes. If you want to work on true analogies, then you work with the one above when discussing humans, because that's the true analogy to serious dog-dog aggression. And in that case, no, the two children would NOT be alone together, and in a lot of other cases would be removed from the home.

ORIGINAL: Kim_MacMillan

Ah, but see if your brother was continually beating you senseless every time he saw you or was trying to stab you with his fork, I assure you the child would likely not be living in the home with you (or at least I certainly hope not if the parents have any sense, but that's an entirely different matter).

You can't equate brothers/sisters not getting along to severe dog aggression in which injury results or is attempted (which is the usual situation for recommending separation). Two very different things, with two very different outcomes. If you want to work on true analogies, then you work with the one above when discussing humans, because that's the true analogy to serious dog-dog aggression. And in that case, no, the two children would NOT be alone together, and in a lot of other cases would be removed from the home.

 
Read below:
 

ORIGINAL: espencer

My point was if you dont re home your children why you would do it with your dogs? but ok, lets drop human analogies

 
(emphasis added)

Yes, but you can't just drop human analogies at your will and whim to make it fit your own POV (well, you can, but then it's invalid) and then use the brother/sister in your own example.
 
If you're going to talk about your brother/sister and "not re-homing them", then you use the proper human analogyto dog-dog aggression in which children ARE re-homed because of problems. Because that's what dog aggression in the home equates to.
 
Otherwise don't compare dog aggression in the home to brother/sister relationships at all, if you aren't going to allow the proper comparisons.You can't have it both ways, not if you want people to try to converse with you on the subject. People can't discuss things objectively if the context isn't objective to begin with.
 
My point, if there is one to be seen here since it's going OT, is that people DO re-home their children if the circumstances call for it, just as people re-home their dogs if circumstances call for it. I have seen and read about so many cases of the dog simply being in the wrong home, and once in a new home and with a little work blossomed and thrived. I don't think it's for anybody to say who should or should not re-home an animal, or a child for that matter, if it becomes an issues of wellbeing and safety.
 
But, like I said, that's OT (sort of), so I'll leave it at that.

I've always wondered about people that have to separate their dogs for x or y reason. It seems like a temporary fix that usually ends up being permanent, and if it is the way their lives are going to be from there on, it's pretty sad actually. I mean part of living together is, well.....living together.

What to do once you're in the situation where you already have to dogs, I'm not so sure about, I've never had to deal with it as a problem. The times I've had two dogs simultaneously it has never been an issue.

A good addition to this thread would be how not to put yourself in that situation to start with. At one point I was thinking of bringing a second dog home, but due to my dog's reactivity, the behaviourist suggested to put a hold on Fido #2 until we work out the kinks on the one that is with us at the moment (By the way, we're making a lot of progress there). So the first idea would be not to get a second dog if your present dog is not "balanced". It has also been said that having age gaps of at least 2 years is a good idea. While I've seen a lot of siblings living together in relative peace, a lot of people also recommend not getting two pups from the same litter (not sure about the logic behind that one though).

I've always wondered about people that have to separate their dogs for x or y reason. It seems like a temporary fix that usually ends up being permanent, and if it is the way their lives are going to be from there on, it's pretty sad actually. I mean part of living together is, well.....living together.

What to do once you're in the situation where you already have to dogs, I'm not so sure about, I've never had to deal with it as a problem. The times I've had two dogs simultaneously it has never been an issue.

A good addition to this thread would be how not to put yourself in that situation to start with. At one point I was thinking of bringing a second dog home, but due to my dog's reactivity, the behaviourist suggested to put a hold on Fido #2 until we work out the kinks on the one that is with us at the moment (By the way, we're making a lot of progress there). So the first idea would be not to get a second dog if your present dog is not "balanced". It has also been said that having age gaps of at least 2 years is a good idea. While I've seen a lot of siblings living together in relative peace, a lot of people also recommend not getting two pups from the same litter (not sure about the logic behind that one though).

 
Eley - you make some good points, but I again wanted to use myself as an example in relation to what you've said.  As far as balanced dogs, Buffy was never a problem when we had our male lab, Jake.  We didn't have any serious concerns about bringing home Sassy after Jake passed away, and they seemed to love each other initially (and still do, most of the time).  It wasn't until a few months later that they had their first spat.  They were jostling for attention near my DH and wham, they went at it.   Things calmed down and then weeks later, something triggered it again (this time it was just a jackhammer going off and they were too close to each other).  We learned early on to remove all treats & toys, but one time they fought when Sassy was chomping on a leaf and Buffy thought it was something more enticing [8|].  One time, I was just sweeping off the patio and they were wandering around the yard and then they were locked in a fight.  I have no idea what triggered it, but a full can of Direct Stop and a full on spray with the hose wouldn't break it up.  Had my DH not been home and heard me yelling, I'm not sure what would've happened.  That's when I made the decision that they wouldn't be together if I was alone. 
 
So, my point is that even with a "balanced" dog and an introduction that goes well, things can change, as in our case.  If I had it to do over, I would opt to rescue a male dog, but I didn't know better at the time.  Would that have solved the problem?  Not sure of that either, but short of not rescuing one at all, it was the only variable I can think of. 

eley, this happens all the time while fostering.  A new dog will not show his/her true personality until weeks after you have brought the dog into your home.  The only thing a family can do is separate and in time rehome the foster.  Most foster families do not want to and are not equiped to handle or change the situation, that is why they opt for rehoming.  I have giant dogs and a very stable pack.  My rescue organization usually sends these dog my way and I seldom have a problem.  My two fosters, in my sig below sometimes get into a fight with each other.  But I know the triggers.  Never has a foster ever had a scrape with one of the Danes.  And so far I have not had any of those bitch-on-bitch fights that read so much of in this forum...most of my fosters of past are bitches.

ORIGINAL: DPU

eley, this happens all the time while fostering.  A new dog will not show his/her true personality until weeks after you have brought the dog into your home.  The only thing a family can do is separate and in time rehome the foster.  Most foster families do not want to and are not equiped to handle or change the situation, that is why they opt for rehoming.  I have giant dogs and a very stable pack.  My rescue organization usually sends these dog my way and I seldom have a problem.  My two fosters, in my sig below sometimes get into a fight with each other.  But I know the triggers.  Never has a foster ever had a scrape with one of the Danes.  And so far I have not had any of those bitch-on-bitch fights that read so much of in this forum...most of my fosters of past are bitches.

Interesting.... Before I was warned against it, I attempted to adopt a Malinois from a breed rescue organization, and I was declined. The grounds as explained to me by the rescue coordinator?...two males cannot under any circumstances, live under the same roof, if the were able to do so, the earth would start spinning backwards, wormholes would open everywhere and the time-space continuum would be at risk. Ironically, some time after that I was re-reading emails from malinois breeders I had contacted before trying the rescue thing and guess who was willing to sell me a male pup? yep...the rescue coordinator happens to also be a breeder.

So how do you manage and how did you raise your dogs?, I'm really interested in hearing how people get this to work. How much does neutering and all that really help?

I think a lot depends upon the skill level of the handler, their preference (and understanding) of methods and philosophies, and knowing/acknowledging when the particular dogs in your care are beyond what someone can personally handle due to all of the above combined with the belief system of their choice.
 
I never had any problems with the dogs under my roof. I gladly adopted a six year old female-to-female aggressive dog (about to be put down) and had no problem integrating her into a household with three other female dogs.
 
For the average dog owner? No, stick to dogs within your skill level, knowledge, and choice of methods. A loving heart can go a long way, but don't bite off more than you can chew until you know what you are doing. It's not fair to the dogs, or the other beings which come in contact with them.
 
I agree with espencer in that separation is not a "cure" and there are better options if you know what you are doing, as Cesar does. [] 
 
Separation can involve barier frustration, leash, and dog aggression. It is a management strategy which can add to both frustration and instability problems in the long run, and not resolve it - due to the emotionality and lack of dog savy skills in the humans these dogs have contact with.
 

Well, I have been doing this fostering for years and I have methods and defined relationship with the dogs, one on one.  I have a core pack of 3 Great Danes, 2 female litter mates, and a male, and each one has a different personality from goofball to serious to aggressive play.  I rely a lot on the pack to teach the fosters the rules of the house.  I don#%92t have a lot of expectation other than all dogs behave, get along, and respect my things.  The pack is always changing with members being adopted and new members coming in.  Its interesting to watch how relationship change within the pack.  The fosters are here long enough to know stability.  What I offer a foster is food, water, housing, a bed, a pack, and a leader.  This is exactly what the foster needs and more importantly wants, so we have a good mutual head start.  My leadership style is to maintain a distance and be firm in what I want from the dog, no hands on discipline.  I don#%92t know, it always seems to work out.
 
Don#%92t get me wrong, my fosters do come with problems.  Marvin has managed SA and Newt is way overly attached to me.  Each new dog I get gives me a new breed to understand and whole new set of behaviors to cope with.  With Marvin he was emaciated and got pneumonia his first week here.  Nursing him back to health was the bonding experience we needed.  For Newt, he also came to me emaciated and needed eye etropian surgery.  Again, nursing the dog back to health created the leadership bond.  Little Chihuahua mix Amy, or we thought, came to me with mange.  A couple fosters came with Heartworms.  I could go on and on but my point is that the special care need seems to create a dog that will be compatible in my home.
 
I must tell you I am proud of my two fosters.  Drizzle is natural and is just finishing up her season.  It was a none event for all the other dogs.  I must be doing something right, I just don#%92t do a good job of describing what I do.    
 
If you want to add another dog to your home, why not foster first?

If you want to add another dog to your home, why not foster first?

That's exactly what I plan to do in the future.  Buffy is 11+ and as much as I hope she'll live forever, I know she won't.  I have my sights set on fostering from here on out.  I think it'd be very rewarding.  I applaud all of you that are currently doing that, and especially those who are fostering dogs with medical and/or behavioral problems.  

two males cannot under any circumstances, live under the same roof, if the were able to do so, the earth would start spinning backwards, wormholes would open everywhere and the time-space continuum would be at risk.

 
[sm=rotfl.gif]Right.  These 2 goofs (males) in my sig. were like peas and carrots...always together.  I'm still waiting for the earth to start spinning backwards!

ORIGINAL: Mastiff

two males cannot under any circumstances, live under the same roof, if the were able to do so, the earth would start spinning backwards, wormholes would open everywhere and the time-space continuum would be at risk.

[sm=rotfl.gif]Right.  These 2 goofs (males) in my sig. were like peas and carrots...always together.  I'm still waiting for the earth to start spinning backwards!

Is the "two males cannot under any circumstances, live under the same roof." comment a joke? I hope so, because it's simply not true.

As far as seperating dogs goes, I can see why someone might do this with working dogs, but when it comes to pets in the house...I would never create a pack within a pack in my home, that's just not normal or healthy. Now I will seperate dogs that i'm working with until I can work to bring them together, which is always the goal. Now whenever I hear about dogs in the home not getting along together...I always think first...(A) Are the dogs getting leadership from the owners? (B) Are they getting sufficient exercise to meet their energy needs? Most ot the time the answer is...no.

ORIGINAL: Awsomedog


As far as seperating dogs goes, I can see why someone might do this with working dogs, but when it comes to pets in the house...I would never create a pack within a pack in my home, that's just not normal or healthy. Now I will seperate dogs that i'm working with until I can work to bring them together, which is always the goal. Now whenever I hear about dogs in the home not getting along together...I always think first...(A) Are the dogs getting leadership from the owners? (B) Are they getting sufficient exercise to meet their energy needs? Most ot the time the answer is...no.

 
I agree 100%