Tony Tales

Have you ever watched any Sophia Yin videos?  She's got a video of a JRT that hated it when someone blew in his face.  He'd lunge and snap.  She demonstrates how she completely changed his emotional response to this by feeding him treats as she blew in his face.  Within a few short sessions he was not reacting in the slightest to her blowing in his face.  Timing is critical.  I'll post the vid below.  If the new format lets me.  This type of training can be used on all types of aggressive behavior.  

It sounds counterintuitive but it works.  More and more behaviorists are recognizing that NILIF and other methods of correction (no matter how mild) don't work with aggressive behavior.  By changing the way a dog feels, about whatever is causing him to show aggression, you eliminate the emotional response that caused the aggressive behavior.  

The same method was demonstrated at a seminar I attended recently.  A dog who is very reactive to strange dogs was brought in and shown another non reactive dog across the room.  The owner of the reactive dog allowed her dog to look at the other dog but did not let her get ramped up.  She allowed only a split second look. Every time her dog looked at the other dog she quickly turned the other way (dog was on lead) and happily called her dog to her side and clicked and treated.  It wasn't long before she could stand still and her dog would glance at the other dog and quickly look back to her owner for a treat.  The dog's body became more and more relaxed as they repeated the process.  When they first started the reactive dog was tail high, body tense, mouth tense and eyes hard. Yes, this was a good trainer so her timing was usually impeccable but even she missed rewarding at the right time once or twice.  It doesn't matter, just continue, if that happens.

Why and when does Willy growl at you?  I know all your dogs are rescues and they came with some of these behaviors but it is possible to work toward changing those behaviors.

I would start with rewarding Tony, when he's on your lap, when Willy approaches.  Every single time.  Yes, you have to set up these scenarios to get lots of repetitions.  Put the other dogs away when you're working on this.  You don't need any other distractions from begging dogs. lol    

drsophiayin.com/.../counter-conditioning_a_dog_to_blowing_in_face

Thanks Jackie, I watched the video link.  And I've posted this reply 3 times, it is always coming in the wrong place.

The boys have had 3 'fights' today, I am beside myself.  I put fights in quotes because Willy is NOT fighting back, all he does is howl and squeal.  I've told Willy for years, "you are just a sensitive misunderstood little boy,' and he really is!

I was so upset after the 2d one I sent a message to the rescue, to see if they would post him -  TONY that is! -  for adoption on their petfinder page.  She replied yes and since then I've been all teary.  What a mess!

Willy:  he is vocal.  You rub him and he grumbles and growls.  To me, after 3 years, this is just the noise he makes.  The only time he bites me (now and for the past 2 years) is during grooming.  He does NOT want to be brushed, bathed, etc.  Being a bichon, that NO is not an option he has.  I have to be very careful when I am working with him, and I generally go through 3.5 hot dogs giving him small training bits after almost every stroke of the brush, or snip of the scissors.  He was much much worse when he got here, and in the first year made great improvement.  He used to sit in the recliner and snap and bite at anyone who tried to sit with him or move him off.  He now readily moves to one side when I say, "Where's mummy gonna sit?"   So that is a HUGE improvement. All that was done with making a loop in a leash and getting him off, then sitting and using my body to block my lap so he could not get up until I invited him.  And I would not invite him until he went and settled, then I'd have him do a come, a sit, etc. before inviting him up with me.  I can still see him that first time I leaned forward and occupied his landing space (my lap).  He walked across the room and sat with a head tilt, trying to sort out what the heck just happened!  He was so used to being a bully in his first home, and having his way at all times.  He no longer assumes that it is his RIGHT to be in a chair.

I've never had to worry about him biting anyone else, it has all been in the house, occupying a chair, and grooming.  He went to a groomer for the first year and half I had him as there was no way I could deal with him.  She never once put a muzzle on him.  She DID have to growl back at him a few times, and establish boundaries which she then taught me.  The least little pull of the brush on a snarl of hair and he was going to bite first sort it out later.  Now I am very careful to keep his coat short, brush slowly so if I hit a snag it barely pulls.  In return he will look at me and lift his lips but not snap or growl.  I immediately stop the brush and slowly work the snarl with my fingers. Mostly I just cut it out with scissors, that is faster with him.  He is also very concerned about work near his feet, he's had his nails clipped too short many times.  I don't do that myself, I take him in once a month to get them done.  In the year of that not ONCE has she clipped the quick so he is starting to relax with her.  It still takes 2 of them plus me shoveling hot dog bits in his mouth to keep that end busy lol.

I'm just not sure what to do with Tony's reactions.  So far, he seems to erupt out of nowhere. So I need to focus on him.  I came home today, arms full, all the dogs were bouncing about happily and next thing he is on Willy's back in full fight mode.  I dropped everything on the floor to break them up.  And I do this with a water squirt bottle and / or broom as no way I want to get bit.  I think Willy had put his front legs up on my legs in his greeting, but I can't be sure.  I got them apart and Tony would dart and charge again, I finally had to grab a baby gate and hold that between then until Tony calmed down.  He was out of control, out of his control.  Not the time to train, at that point you just have to separate them.

So if he is on the chair with me, I need to have treats handy to be able to redirect him from glaring at Willy and leaping.  I'll have to go back to having a baggie in my pocket at all times, to deal with this and try some training.  And when I come in, to have treats with me as well.  

BTW while I was sorting out the boys, the girls helped themselves to the groceries I had dropped on the floor.  Sigh.

Sorry this is so long!

Sandie, I'm really sorry you're going through such a time with the pups.  I know it's the last thing you need.  Your homecoming yesterday sounds awful.

Can you separate Tony from the other dogs when you're gone to avoid that kind of conflict when you come home?  I know some of your dogs aren't crate trained because of their background.  Maybe an ex pen would be an option.  

If you could crate (or whatever confinement works for them) and rotate Tony and Willy it would make life much better for you and for the dogs until you decide what to do.  The more often they have conflicts the worse it usually gets.  

I am wondering why you would rehome Willy instead of Tony.  Not that it's any of my business and maybe you're thinking it will be easier to find a new home for Willy.   Don't get me wrong.  It's smart to know when a dog isn't a good fit.  Naturally, any potential adopter needs to know about Tony's personality and Willy's too.  

I would rehome Tony.  Willy is MINE, lol.  I've reread, can't see where I said that it was Willy I'd rehome, I'd fix that if I could find it!

I think I found it and clarified it.  Just an improper use of a pronoun on my part.  Willy stays, Tasha and Riley stay.  we are all used to one another's quirks.

Tony may be a bit much for me to tackle at this point in time.   I need to think on it a bit, try a few things to satisfy myself that I HAVE given him a fair trial here.  Being in rescue, I really try not to bounce dogs around from one home to another.  So if nothing else, I want to be clear as to what his issues are.  Seems he is not an alpha but more a wanna be (see?  I've been reading!).  And a bully.  Who may or may not accept some training to build his confidence and stop this nonsense.  This is yet another one of those times I just wish I could sit and TALK to him and reason with a doggie!

I probably misread what you posted originally about which dog you'd contacted the rescue about.  I was so surprised at you considering rehoming Willy, which is why I had to ask.  :)  

Tony does sound like a project dog.  He would probably be a great dog for a one dog household.  

Yes, anyone involved, like you are, in rescue knows that bouncing dogs from home to home is not good for the dog.  That said, you have to consider your other dogs well being, your well being and Tony's well being.   I know you're doing just that as you figure out what to do.

It's not east having a dog like Tony and the time commitment to counter condition a dog aggressive dog can be overwhelming.  I've had a few myself and know what it's like.  If only we could have a behaviorist like Dr. Yin or someone with her skills and knowledge come and live with us for a few months.  :) 

Good vibes for you and your fluffs. 

Jackie, if you see this, will you please email me?  Edited to remove email address; I've heard from Jackie.

I can't find my way back to this thread half the time!

Sandie, I'm sending you an email shortly.

Sandie my internet has been down. I'll email you tomorrow from the office.

Hello, I wish Tony is doing well. well, don't worry he will learnt each and every thing. :)

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