Finally caught female black lab rubbing along the one wall in hallway.

rwbeagles

I do 100% believe dogs can be sneaky. They are sneaky with one another and with their owners.

That doesn't imply some "human" characteristic. Nature has sneaky animals within her entire spectrum...animals utilize camoflauge, misdirection, mimicry, and outright LYING (the broken wing trick for example).

People get just so hung up on not "applying human characteristics to animals" that they forget we don't hold the major stock in ANY of that stuff lol. We are all animals and we all have things in common. IMO the "humans only" thing comes in AFTER the act...a human is apt to dwell on their actions...sometimes for a LIFETIME.

There ARE sneaky dogs just like there are sneaky people...the acts they do may differ because one has opposable thumbs and the other does not. Call it opportunistic if that makes you feel better tho. Or hey how about "problem solving" or "stealthy". Semantics.

The only difference is that a sneaky person might feel bad about their actions when caught out, where a dog won't....people have guilt and remorse, where dogs just have consequences that they then move on from. Hmm seems like people could learn a lot from a dog.

 

In this context, I think it's fair to say that the dog simply wants to scratch an itch and has an owner who wants to assign the human characteristic of "sneaky" to her dog so that she can punish bad behavior.  While I do think that dogs bait each other, and if that can be characterized as sneaky, so be it.  But, IMO, when you agree with newbie owners that dogs are sneaky, you perpetuate a model of correction and punishment versus management and training.  Sorry, just how I see it.

I don't think the sneaky was just about the scratching Anne, it was also about the furniture.

As to your comments about the "newbie" owner, and "newbie" owners in general? They sound very generalized, and a bit condescending.

I try to talk to people like they are on my level,....because they usually are, they are people who love their dogs like I do, and want their lives to be happy...like I do.

I think one can lose the human connection in the attempt to "correct" the human and that is something I see happening in this thread. It creates distance...and it happens quite often on this forum. With that said...I will leave the thread and wish the owner best of luck finding a solution that keep ALL members of the household happy and content.

OMG so many postings about the word sneaky and how about solving the dang problem? I think there are too many folks who are so busy with posturing on this forum with theories and not much content. The focus on semantics here is ridiculous. OMG she really thinks I should use the internet to catch her doing it, to train her when I am not looking! I guess I am much too busy with real life to be sucked into this stuff. The crate was a possibility but she does it during the day and when I am gone and at night all when I am not looking or my husband. Isn't that enough to say she makes careful decisions to do it when she won't get caught be it at night day or when we are gone? Yeah that is sneaky sneaky sneaky. If I crate her it will be all day and night based on that recommendation. Wow with all those credentials I am completely uninspired. For such an expert sure have a lot of time to post thousands of posts. I really think  some of you are so busy playing with the theories here that you lose sight of reality and practicality. I thought this forum was worth while to get real life issues with dogs addressed but end up getting scolded by using the word sneaky and the posting gets hijacked by the so called scholars here. Now I know why some have so many postings they spend all their time theorizing and posturing and no real practical common sense or knows how to apply all their theories to prove them wrong either. Maybe some need to come off their high and mighty horse and get real here. For such experts to give opinions they have not asked the right questions and assumed way too much on this. That tells me you are all bark and full off pooh. You assumed sneaky does not apply and you are dead wrong. You also assumed I have time to watch her on the internet. I could go on an on here in nauseum like some of these other posters but really I am moving on to greener and more realistic pastures. What a total waste of time.

Well, sorry to see you go and I do agree with you that dogs can be "sneaky". Dog boards can be rough until you get the hang of things. But even those we don't agree with 100%, still have something to teach. Please don't let a momentary frustration with your dog's behavior or with the responses here stop you from trying to find a solution.

In potty training, some folks will interrupt a dog while they are messing in the house and then get them outside. If this is done gently and in a "social correction" sense, it can be highly successful. If this is done with too much "pressure" in a "punishment" sense, the dog can become "sneaky" because they will associate the punishment with the act itself, not where it is occuring. The dog will then "sneak" to potty inside to avoid the "punishment". Let's face it, when ya gotta go, ya gotta go and a certain amount of management can set the dog up for success through creating good habits.

Some dogs respond very well to social corrections and interuptions and do get the message and comply, some don't. Sometimes a behavior is more rewarding than social compliance or a "punishment". All depends upon the dog, the human, the relationship, and the approach.

I wish you well.

rwbeagles

I don't think the sneaky was just about the scratching Anne, it was also about the furniture.

As to your comments about the "newbie" owner, and "newbie" owners in general? They sound very generalized, and a bit condescending.

I try to talk to people like they are on my level,....because they usually are, they are people who love their dogs like I do, and want their lives to be happy...like I do.

I think one can lose the human connection in the attempt to "correct" the human and that is something I see happening in this thread. It creates distance...and it happens quite often on this forum. With that said...I will leave the thread and wish the owner best of luck finding a solution that keep ALL members of the household happy and content.

Sorry, but I think this poster created distance with the first post back to me.  The poster was given some information on how this problem is usually solved without the necessity for punishment, but instead of exploring it further with us, was instantly defensive about our reluctance to assume that the dog was simply being sneaky.  If you want to call fear of the presence of the owner, lest the dog be yelled at, or worse, sneaky, so be it.  But, my guess is that this is another person who wants an instant solution to a problem that can be solved humanely with a little forethought about management, plus some simple training.  I'm out of here, too, though.  I simply don't have time any more for this kind of argument.  If you want to believe the worst about dogs instead of figuring out how to make them WANT to cooperate with you, I'm not interested in participating in the labeling of dogs as sneaky, stubborn, stupid, etc.   And, this poster obviously wants someone with fewer credentials who can tell her how to punish her dog into compliance, because she obviously doesn't have time for anything else.  She has plenty of time to bash me, but no time to train the dog - pity.

Trillium2

What a total waste of time.

We wasted our time trying to explain some basic principles about how dogs learn.  If you want to call names and pitch a fit, that's cool.  No one here has any reason to do anything but try and give you some help with your problem.  I always forget that many people do mostly want the quick fix. We made the mistake in thinking you wanted to educate yourself on how to train your dog.   Good luck.