Why Dogs Pull on the Leash

 Just wanted to say Thank you for this!

espencer

Yeah, i dont like to turn around and get away from "x" either but if some people here have the patience of do it because they are not as good at leash redirections like me then is a method that works for their specific situation.

Let's be clear - if my dog is excited about something and wants to go and say hi, I DON'T turn around and walk away.  I DON'T use a "leash re-direction" (um, collar pop?  correction? the fashionable terms for this form of punishment confuse me a little).  I don't wave treats or toys about.  I don't ask her to DO anything as such. 

I just say "hey, let's go!"  She knows that means, "nope, not doing that today" and she walks nicely beside me and away from "X".  As Kim said, the lead is more of a safety measure... insurance, an ornament required by law, a "just in case", because nothing and no one is perfect in this world.

The turning around and walking away is only for a dog who hasn't learned yet. In my case this is normally a puppy, and I do not think "leash re-directions" are appropriate for young puppies....?  Nor am I comfortable leaving this communication until the dog IS old enough to take one.  The earlier teaching starts, the better, surely....

Maybe one day we might get thrown into a completely new situation, and my "hey...." might fail.  In which case, I have the lead as the safety measure and I turn around and move away.  She learns that "hey..." means EXACTLY the same thing for that trigger too.

I've also used "meet and greet" as a reward, because, well, it's something the dog wants, and it's high value!  Now if I have a young untrained dog who starts pulling because they want to M&G and that person is about to cross our path, if I am NOT proactive in moving away, the dog WILL be rewarded for pulling.  Regardless of the reason he pulled in the first place, by allowing him to be "successful", I ensure that the behaviour is more likely to be repeated - that's what "reinforce" MEANS after all You could argue that this action doesn't "work" because it doesn't decrease the chance the behaviour will be repeated... that's as may be and depends on the individual dog and the relationship factor.  But I sure as heck don't want to make it so it is MORE likely the behaviour will be repeated, so at the very least, it's damage control.

Because the bottom line is, even if I was to use a leash re-direction in this case, I am only controlling MY DOG.  I can't control the actions of other people or THEIR dogs.  There have been times when regardless of my voice, my body and even the lead, some oblivious person has moved right into our space and cooed in a squeaky voice over the "sweet sweet pupppyyyyy!!!" and the dog has been rewarded for pulling.  I could have leash re-directed till the cows came home, but it would not change the outcome: the dog was given a HIGH VALUE reward for her behaviour, and it was now more likely to be repeated.  Kinda like driving I spose.... regardless of how "good" you are (with any method) there could well be an idiot round the next corner who ruins it for you!

Liesje

What I see a lot is people will say that their dogs fixate on squirrels and this needs to be dealt with, but their method involves going out and seeking squirrels, allowing the dog to not only notice but fixate, and THEN try to redirect the dog's attention or just scold or physically correct the dog.  To me that is squashing the drive.

I don't think I would ever do that.  It might work... eventually.... but surely it's a long and arduous process for both!  Sounds like setting the dog up to fail, which surely isn't good practise....?  The process of desensitisation (where the dog always remains just outside of the critical distance to the trigger) would also be slow, but at least sets the dog up for success rather than failure, and (I hope) he would be given access to the Thing He Wants whenever possible for showing self restraint.....  So I am thinking that would not result in squashed drive either? 

Liesje

I think this is perfectly fine.  It depends on the goals for the dog.  I've seen SchH trials where there are birds and other wildlife scurrying out on the field, so for me I can't use the method of just turning around when we see a prey animal because the dog trains and performs off leash with these animals nearby and I need to know he is focused and under control. 

I am thinking there are relatively few people who do SchH but there are LOTS who need their dog to walk on a loose lead through towns and cities, or in areas near livestock.  So yeah, the individual goal is going to dictate a lot of how someone goes about teaching their dog.  I am also thinking in terms of the original topic.... why dogs pull.... Obviously, if you're doing work off lead with the dog, he ain't gonna pull   I suppose it  begs the question.... is "teaching not to pull" the same as getting the dog to pay attention to YOU, even in the presence of very high levels of distraction?  I don't think so.....?  You can have a dog who is VERY handler focused, but still habitually defaults to walking on a taut lead....?

Kim_MacMillan

Not arguing here, genuinely looking for information as to whether you have actually worked around "x" or just assume that you can never be relevant around "x".

Well, as i have been saying since my first post, i dont walk away from "x" and a lot of people here know that i'm a fan of flooding so I'm confident that i have been working around "x" more close and often that most of the members of this forum.

Probably thew way i presented the situation sounded like i still today i need to use leash corrections in my dogs, but i dont anymore. I am confident that I am relevant to my dog in the face of those distractions because he only sees them but does not react anymore.

You are throwing several "what ifs" at me, i could answer them all and you still would twitch them again and accommodate them to see if me and my dog are "ready". I have a lot of "what ifs" for you and the techniques you use as well, but i dont want to spend 20 pages arguing which way is safer. I belong to another forum where people use the same techniques as me (some of them i think are way to harsh), i could give you the link by PM and i am sure there are going to be 3 or 4 people ready to answer all your questions and have the drive to spend 6 or 7 days talking about them.

Chuffy

some oblivious person has moved right into our space and cooed in a squeaky voice over the "sweet sweet pupppyyyyy!!!" and the dog has been rewarded for pulling.

espencer

Chuffy

some oblivious person has moved right into our space and cooed in a squeaky voice over the "sweet sweet pupppyyyyy!!!" and the dog has been rewarded for pulling.

 But why the dog was pulling in the first place? If you truly teach your dog not to pull then he wont pull at the time the person comes closer with the squeaky voice.

 

I think she was speaking about a puppy in this instance, and not a trained dog.  Although, most of the dogs I know love to respond to a high pitched voice that's trying to interact with them.  The difference is whether the dog can be redirected in the presence of distractions or not.  Easy for a trained dog, nearly impossible for an untrained puppy.

corvus

Chuffy

Let's say my dog got all excited and wanted to go and say hi to some people across the street, and I turn around and move away while saying "hey, lets go".  Does that mean the dog isn't going to get JUST as excited next time she sees a new person?

 

Maybe more so if frustration comes into play. Ever seen those dogs that are never allowed to meet another dog, just hustled away every time? Sooner or later they get so frustrated about never being able to meet and greet that they end up way over the top in arousal and are altogether likely to bite the strange dog if they ever do finally get a chance to get near them. I'm not saying it will always happen, but I think it's quite common when people make no effort to gain the attention of their dog or give them something else to do with their arousal. It's forever unresolved and just gets worse and worse.

I use M&G as a reward - if she is polite, and staying calm and if it is to let her, she gets to meet the other dog.  But it's good (IMO) that she knows that she only goes to meet them if I say so and she is used to the fact that sometimes it doesn't happen.

spiritdogs

espencer

Chuffy

some oblivious person has moved right into our space and cooed in a squeaky voice over the "sweet sweet pupppyyyyy!!!" and the dog has been rewarded for pulling.

 But why the dog was pulling in the first place? If you truly teach your dog not to pull then he wont pull at the time the person comes closer with the squeaky voice.

 

 

I think she was speaking about a puppy in this instance, and not a trained dog.  Although, most of the dogs I know love to respond to a high pitched voice that's trying to interact with them.  The difference is whether the dog can be redirected in the presence of distractions or not.  Easy for a trained dog, nearly impossible for an untrained puppy.

Yes, thank you

Telling that in the examples of pulling I have used "untrained dogs".  Seems the simplest answer to the question really is as others have said: the dog pulls because he has not been trained.....

corvus

Well, it's all very interesting. I shall ruminate on it.

This article came across my desk recently (a few days after I wrote the article comparing the force behind chemical bonds to the motivating force behind why dogs pull on the leash, i.e., the "drive to connect";): "Scientists Discover the Molecular Heart of Collective Behavior".

The article starts out, "Birds flock. Fish gather in schools. Bees swarm. Even amoebae clump together in mystifyingly clever constellations."

The study is not exactly on point, but I think you might find it to be an interesting addendum to what I wrote.

LCK

I find that fascinating, and not altogether unexpected.  However, I also think it may be simplistic to assume that a single substance is responsible.  It may be true for amoebae, but not true for higher organisms - more than one substance may need to be engaged for flock responses, for example.  Only investigation will lead us down the path to understanding on that one.  But, I also think that it will provide a clearer picture of how similar we are to other species, and how much more they experience that is a mystery to us at the moment.