This is getting absurd... (Chelsea)

Have you thought about adding something to her meals as a filler?  Brinxx was about 10 pounds over her target weight, & she was eating less that a half a pound a day.  I decreased her food even more, & added cooked, mashed squash to her meals.  She was full, & now, she's back down to a good weight.  Just something that you might try.

Unfortunately when you do a general blood panel thyroid results often show "norm" -- but "normal" is the SAME scale for a jack russell and a rottweiler and a 12 year old bassett hound!

That's why a lot of us have found Dr. Dodd's tests (and she's pretty close to you I think -- didn't you decide at one point to let her do a thyroid panel on Cherokee or am I thinking of someone else in CA?) or Michigan State's tests (which are also breed specific) to be a LOT more accurate.  Billy's always came up "normal" -- and he's MAJORLY low thyroid for a cocker.  I never ever could get weight off him before because his metabolism was just plain way too slow.

Now -- to add to what Bevo says -- it's NOT just about calories.  It's about consumable energy.  Meat is high in calories but if, because of her health and your time, she can't burn off that sort of energy then it's not what will work for her.  We've been preached at by TV for so long that "Fat makes you fat" (Thank you Susan Powter - please go back to bankruptcy court!) that we've believed fat is a 'bad guy' when, in fact, dogs need a certain amount of the right kind of fat -- and omega 3 fatty acids is one of the biggies they need.

So why not add a sardine or two a day to her food?  Just the cheapie sardines -- doesn't have to be the expensive ones -- just packed in water or olive oil. 

Then -- mashed/cooked veggies can absolutely rock for giving her some bulk so she feels 'full' AND giving her some extra nutrition -- I use sweet potato as my base for food cos there is a lot of nutrition there and they are kidney friendly which my dogs need; and use fresh &/or frozen veggies (they can be cheaper than fresh) -- french cut green beans, okra, turnip or collard greens, etc -- all of those are low calorie.  But rotating those to add to the kibble or making a cooked topper that combines several of those that you freeze and then portion so you can add them as a topper if you don't want to do the whole cooking thing again.  I use 'fresh' of stuff like bok choy (lordy they love it), a mess of different varieties of yellow, green or orange squash, cabbage (cole slaw mix rocks!), etc. 

But with such a wide variety to choose from you can hit sales or produce stands "for cheap" and put it up ahead if you want.

 If ours look to be getting tubby I sub part of the meal with green beans. Don't stop the fish oil and don't stress about the calories in it.  There are "good calories" and "empty calories". 

Are you using the Senior or the regular? Maggie is eating only 1/2 cup of the senior a day so that's in line with your dog - Maggie's 35 pounds, moderately active, healthy, and almost 16 years old.

Kibble is formulated to oversupplement micronutrients to ensure that tiny dogs, and puppies for ALS formulas, are adequately supplied. So it's unlikely you are short in anything even cutting back that much. Also, healthy senior dogs that have been on balanced diets for life, have a huge reserve of many of the important micronutrients.

However, omega fatty acids and most antioxidants do NOT remain in reserve, so please don't cut out your fish oil and vitamin E!! As Callie said, OFAs actually help burn extra fat by supplying vital energy and mental stamina - plus maintaining a healthy immune system.

Even feeding Senior, you could most likely cut back to 3/4 cup without a problem. If you feel like she's just not getting anything to eat, offer low-cal chew treats like bully sticks and moo tubes.

We recently discovered a really cool one that's super low fat and takes a while to gnaw down - skate tails! It's a fish kind of like a stingray. I get them from Best Bully Sticks.

I also get bulk 12" moo tubes, cut them in half, put dabs of Tripett inside them, and give these to Gus, who got bored with bullies and has always been kind of "meh" about bones. The puppy gets a tube entirely filled with Tripett and frozen - hours of teething happiness!

Probiotics can help ensure that she gets the max out of every bite of food. If you use a high quality powder like NOW 4X6 there's no calories to speak of - it's just 1/8 tsp per meal. Probiotics are key in the absorption of minerals in the small intestine. Adding them is a great idea at her age.

Good luck! I totally know where you are coming from. I have four seniors now, and three that are just plain fatties. It's hard to balance good nutrition and keeping the weight off.

BEVOLASVEGAS

Have you thought about adding something to her meals as a filler?

Yeah, but the only filler she'd eat is...meat. lol. She won't eat vegetables unless they're well-mixed with a lot of meat (preferably fatty ground beef). When I was homecooking, I had to really watch the ratio of meat:veggies because if it was just a touch veggie heavy, she wouldn't touch the batch of food.

calliecritturs

That's why a lot of us have found Dr. Dodd's tests (and she's pretty close to you I think -- didn't you decide at one point to let her do a thyroid panel on Cherokee or am I thinking of someone else in CA?) or Michigan State's tests (which are also breed specific) to be a LOT more accurate.

Well here's what happened with that.
1) I found out that Dr. Dodds just uses Antech labs, the same as my vet.
2) I found the reference ranges Dr. Dodds uses, and she has one set for "adults", one for puppies and adolescents, one for "large breeds," one for "geriatrics," and one for sighthounds. No real "breed-specific" anything unless you have a sighthound (but since I have absolutely no idea what Cherokee is, breed-specific wouldn't be helpful anyway).
3) My vet said Dr. Dodds is pretty controversial among veterinary endocrinologists especially. They think she way over-diagnoses thyroid issues.
and 4) My vet told me that if Cherokee's bloodwork came back at all questionable for thyroid, we could start her on thyroid meds and just see if it did anything for her. When the results came back, we decided it wasn't low enough to medicate her.

I'll probably get her tested again the next time we go in (which looks like it's gonna be soon, since this growth next to her eye has decided to triple in size in the past week or two..sigh..) just to see if there's any changes. And maybe I'll do it through Hemopet next time, but this last time it just didn't seem worth it.

Chuffy

Don't stop the fish oil and don't stress about the calories in it.  There are "good calories" and "empty calories".

I know, but when the dog can apparently only have 450 calories a day, every calorie counts. Good calories, empty calories..it doesn't matter. Calories in vs. calories out. I'm seriously incapable of feeding her less than 1/2 cup of kibble at a time, so I can't be adding in oil that's so calorie-dense. But that's why I'm trying to figure this out, because I don't want to be cutting things out like that.

brookcove

Are you using the Senior or the regular? Maggie is eating only 1/2 cup of the senior a day so that's in line with your dog - Maggie's 35 pounds, moderately active, healthy, and almost 16 years old.

Wow, really? And she doesn't starve her fool head off the whole day? Cherokee eats the adult stuff, because my sister's dog and she share the food, and Keva's only a year old. I dunno if senior would be okay for her? It doesn't really matter at this point, cause I think I'm gonna switch Cherokee off Orijen. I just don't know to what yet though. 

Provided she is otherwise reasonably healthy, I would be *more* concerned about what she is missing out on with cutting the oil, than I would be about extra weight.  You say you have no idea what breed or mix she is - she does look like a solid dog, but I haven't seen any pics of her so I could be way off the mark... but maybe SOME of that extra weight is muscle and she is not QUITE as overweight as you think she is?  IME, weight *alone* is not a good indicator of body condition and many vets (around here anyway) are not great at recognising good/poor body condition. 

Do you feed her meals in a bowl, or an interactive toy?  *Slowing down* her eating is one way of helping her "feel full" for longer.  (This works with humans too )  The best way is to pack a toy (like a kong) with her meal, freeze it and give it to her frozen.  It will take her ages to eat it.  On the other hand, even just putting an object in her bowl to force her to pick round it rather than gulp her food down will slow her down and make her feel more satisfied afterwards. This works great with Dell; feed her "normally" and she comes and gives you that "I'm starving!" look almost the moment she is finished.   Give her the smae AMOUNT of food, but slow her down and she's fine and contented for the rest of the evening.

Wow, really? And she doesn't starve her fool head off the whole day?

Nope. She gets plenty of, as I say, low cal chewies that satisfy her, and she is bright and active and in great health. Her new vet is really convinced I'm confused about her age (impossible as I got her as a six week old puppy the year I got married).

 Emma has to consume a LOT of food for a dog her size (I added it up  the other day, and she's close to 800 calories, for a 5 yr old, 19 lb, lean dog). On the other hand, I have Ena, who's caloric needs are steadily decreasing. That is hard, for me! Ena's eating less than half of what Emma gets, and they're the same height (so to my mind, the same size), and Ena is only 16 months old. Nothing's wrong with her, it's just that Emma has issues. So, I started helping them eat slower. *I* feel better about Ena's tiny (in comparison!) meal, when it takes her 15 or 20 minutes to eat it. Sometimes, we do obedience for kibbles. Sometimes, they get a Kong, or a treat ball.

How do you feel about Wellness? I've heard nothing but great things about CORE RF.

 I am having the same issue with Tootsie. She was also on Orijen and only gets 1/3 of a cup 2x daily and no weight loss, actually gaining. She weighs 26 lbs and should be 24. I know 2 lbs, but on her (long and low) any weight gain really shows.Her being so hairy doesn't help either. I switched to Orijen sr. so we'll see. I also add fillers, like green beans or peas to her pm meal. She also gets Salmon Oil daily, which I'm not willing to eliminate. Too much coat improvement to stop.

Ginger eats 1/4 c a day. Now, granted, she's a 10 lb dog, but it still looks pretty puny when you're pouring a wee 1/8c  in a bowl twice a day. 

 Tablespoon of oil? I use Seapet Gold - it's concentrated, so 1/4 tsp provides around 1200 EFA+DHA which is plenty for anything short of severe disease of some kind. 1/4 tsp is like, what, 25 kcals?

I've had terrific results with the Core RF. The only reason I switched was I hated to be paying so much for so few kcals. Yup, I'm cheap. 

Check the prices at Best Bully Sticks. Six inch very heavy bullies are $1.09 plus shipping. Less than a can of good dog food. Heck, that's cheaper than a can of most grocery store brands!

chelsea_b

I don't put it in toys or anything because she won't PLAY with toys.

Stuff it in a kong.  It's not for PLAYING with - it's not really a toy in that sense.  Ours just lie with it between their front paws and lick and chew and gnaw to get the food out.  Put a dab of something sticky and stinky over the end to pique her interest.... a little smear of soft cheese or liverwurst.  Or even a touch of PNB  or canned food.  I know you are thinking "argh! calories!!" but don't panic... you only need a teeny tiny bit and it's really only while she learns what to DO with the Kong.