Obedience folks, have a Q for you

    • Gold Top Dog

    Obedience folks, have a Q for you

     What steps do you go through in training the attention heel? Do you use a treat lure, watch me + heel? I need to get something like this going for Abbie.

     

    Thanks!

    • Gold Top Dog

     To begin with, I start with attention at a sit on my left side. Then take one step and encourage them to follow then reward when they keep eye contact. Just one step at a time. Lol.  If there's to many distractions, you can lure the eye contact with sound or food then reward that instead of taking that one step.

    Hope that makes sense. Smile

    • Gold Top Dog

    I am just starting the absolute basics of this with Nikon.  Perhaps for him it will be different b/c he is a Schutzhund dog.  An acquaintance is showing me how to start him with a food lure in order to get him used to the correct position.  The eye contact/attention is very easy to add in, but I guess if you want it to be "correct", competively speaking, the position needs to come first or you get a dog that wraps and crabs (body starts to slant so the head is up looking at you but the butt is swinging out).  I had a thread in here not too long ago with three different methods we're playing around with.

    • Gold Top Dog

     For Ena, I started with a stationary (sitting  or standing, I didn't care) watch me. When that got nice (and I mean NICE, somebody can touch her and she doesn't break her gaze), I started asking her to move with me. It's quite nice. There isn't a lot of her to wrap, but she does do a litle wrapping. I've gotta get somebody to take photos so I can *see* it.

    • Gold Top Dog

     I think it depends on the dog.  With Rafe I had trained the heel first, without doing much on attention work (wish I would've done the method Leisje is doing, but this works, too).  So he already knew the position, I just had to get him to look up at me constantly.  I used a toy for that, because we were already doing lots of drive work and he gets amped up pretty quickly and easily.  I used a small tug, and play with him for a bit, then go into a heel with the toy up at my left shoulder.  Worked like a charm for him, although at first it got a little sloppy because of his excitement.  If you don't have a dog that's very toy driven, though, that probably wouldn't be the best way for you to go. 

     Food works SO well with Soda.  Same kind of principle as above, just with food.  I tend to like to drop treats so they have to be watching me to catch them.  We're still working on her heel (I'm not really using any leash or collar with her when heel training, so it's a little different than what I did with Rafe), so I'm doing both at the same time.  Again, she's really food driven, so if your dog isn't then it might not work out that well.

     So I guess I'm just saying you have to do what you dog responds to best.  There are so many ways of doing it.  Some people spit hotdogs from their mouth to the dogs.  Some people give a correction every time the dog is NOT looking at them (not the best in my opinion).  Some just go without a motivator (like holding the toy or treat at the shoulder), and just click/treat or praise every time the dog looks up at them.  Just kinda whatever works for you.  

    Also, like Leisje said, kinda depends on what kind of heel you're looking for.  An OB heel and a schutzhund heel tend to be a little different. 

    • Gold Top Dog
    How do you keep the dog from not looking away? I imagine you need a correction if the dog does look away?
    • Gold Top Dog

    Jewlieee
    How do you keep the dog from not looking away? I imagine you need a correction if the dog does look away?

     I wouldn't try to train attention using leash corrections. I'd suggest the books Choose to Heel to start with. Steppin' Up to Success Book One is really good as well, as it has an eight week attention course outlined in it.

    • Gold Top Dog

     Some people in schutzhund will use prong collars coupled with leash corrections when the dog looks away.  With my guys I just do a simple "ah-ah" when they look away and they look right back.  It hasn't been a huge issue for me really.  They're both pretty intense when it comes to food and play, so they don't have much of a problem looking up at me for those things, and then it just becomes habit.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Jewlieee
    How do you keep the dog from not looking away? I imagine you need a correction if the dog does look away?

     

    Depends on the age and level of the dog.  Nikon, no, no corrections for looking away.  We are still shaping this behavior, it doesn't even have a name yet.  Right now we praise and reward when it is offered (usually it's being lured with treats or a toy under my chin or armpit).

    • Gold Top Dog

     You don't need corrections, really, if you shape and generalize the behavior well. Ok, at least for my low levels of competition, and the type of dogs that I have (both fairly soft, Emma soft for her breed and Ena soft as a marshmallow in a fireplace, LOL). I just shape from a glance in my direction, and work up to not rewarding for anything  but staring into my eyes while a human or dog touches them. I go from a touch to a ruffle, play bow, etc. It gets higher and higher as the dog gets better. Using this method (reward only, and withholding reward for not complying), I've shaped enough of an attention heel that it transfers to the rally ring, for Ena. With Emma, I'm not there yet, but Emma is a harder dog with issues to overcome. I've started spitting food at her, to help, some. It's made a big dif..

    • Gold Top Dog
    my dogs were pretty much started by terri-arnold-ites, so my basis is the first book of the steppin' up to success series of books - i use food to shape the position i want, i reward with food from my mouth, and once they understand this there are corrections put in, but most of them are "step away" corrections - had they been watching, they would have seen me step away :)
    • Gold Top Dog

     Thanks for all the input. I have been doing this with Abbie and we are getting there....I walk her loose leashed, then stop and back up a few steps until she looks and comes to me. I do this over and over, eventually having to step back less and less to the point where i can just pause to get a look.