Natural Diets

    • Gold Top Dog

    Natural Diets

         Ron's posts regarding a job-site dog got me to thinking. More so, since yesterday I groomed a former job-site stray. It took 2 months for this little gal to come close enough to be caught. She was being fed by some of the guys, and being chased and run off by others. This job was on an indian reservation, several miles back on dirt, and miles from any town or homes. It was summer time about two years ago.

         Fortunatley my friend, and sometime co-worker felt sorry for this little wild dog, and made the effort to gain her trust. Long story short, he got himself a very nice mini poodle. She's now fat, sassy and well adjusted, but back then she lived on roadkill and job site scraps. She some how dodged coyotes, owls, hawks, and semi trucks. She somehow found water!!  She had also been shot, a glancing blow to her head and jaw.

        The point is, the domestic dog is a very durable species! Our grandparents kept dogs without benefit of commercial diets, OR vaccinations. There have been untold generations of dogs fed a very high grain based diet!!  Do you suppose that the Japanese in the early 20th century fed their dogs meat and fish? NO, it was old rice!! The people ate mostly rice, and any bits of fish or other protein was a treasure for the family, not the dog. The dog had to catch his owns bits, mice, and bugs!!

         We don't live with wolves, we live with a sub-species that has been living off human scraps since we became hunter/gatherers. They have helped us hunt, and in return they got a bone and moldy bread. They also lived by eating the mice and rats that we attract to us. A natural one on raw diet would be whole animals, not just meat and bones. Whole fruit and veggies, not pureed. Whatever we eat, they'll eat, whatever we won't eat, they'll eat too. This has gone on for generation after generation, and the dog has adapted and thrived. If your dog is thriving on what you're feeding, then stick with it!!  

        

    • Gold Top Dog

    For me, again, it's the difference between randomness and being able to understand and control what goes into my dog's diet.   Why depend on whether what we eat might match what is best for the dogs, when I can simply do some research and offer that directly to them?

    I don't believe most dogs are fragile either.  But honestly there's plenty that are high risk groups that I would feel uncomfortable exposing to randomness.  Tiny dogs, old dogs, young dogs, giant dogs, hard working dogs, dogs in poor health, dogs bred very far from the "wild" genetics.

    If you look at those feral dogs that "thrive" on trash - what do you see?  Medium sized, curly tailed, yellow dogs, some shades of grey perhaps - eventually a feral population will select for uniformly adaptive characteristics in a population.  And of course such dogs thrive on trash - if they didn't, they'd be too dead to have puppies. 

    That ability is passed on to our pet dogs, but we've also sidestepped such genetics and there is a wide, wide ability to thrive on randomness in the diet.  And a huge problem to me is that there are some things that won't emerge for many, many years. 

    Zinc deficiency affects the thyroid in a devasting and permament way but you won't see it until the dog is middle aged for the most part.  Copper deficiency affects diegstion and coat color in ways that might affect a breeding dog's future as a contributor to future generations.  Vitamin E deficiency can be mis-diagnosed as PRA, as it did in the past and brought a sad end to many lines of working Border Collies.

    As shamrock's mommy mentioned, there's many other deficiencies that may not become symptomatic for a dog's entire lifetime, but geriatric stresses bring them out.  Then it's too late to build the reserves the dog needs to be comfortable for the rest of his or her life, and fight the battles of their golden years.

    • Gold Top Dog
    Yep, I agree with Brookcove. It seems the older my dogs get the less resilient they are with regards to diet and changes in diet. Changes in the dogs' conditions appears much faster than it used to, I can tell in about 2 weeks if a food will work or not with my guys... The last line of the OP's post sums it up, if it works, stick with it.
    • Gold Top Dog

      Whatever we eat, they'll eat, whatever we won't eat, they'll eat too. This has gone on for generation after generation, and the dog has adapted and thrived. If your dog is thriving on what you're feeding, then stick with it!!  

    just because they are alive and breeding doesn't mean they are "thriving" or in optimal health. Look up "poi dogs" for an illustrative example. Look at people- many people in our society eat less-than-optimal diets. They survive, they grow up, they have kids, then they hit middle age and start to suffer health problems from their poor diets. It takes many years for chronic imbalances in the diet to catch up with the animal. Practically all diseases and disorders of middle to old age are significantly influenced by diet. By the time the symptoms appear it may be too late to ever correct the problem.

    • Gold Top Dog

     Yes, but back then people and animals died of starvation and diseases that were preventable. Do you think anyone noticed if the dogs were itching a lot?  Was it the flea or a food allergy?  ... was the problems with the coat mange....? They didn't care. They had bigger fish to fry.  Shoot the dog, get another one. 

     The average life span was about 36 yrs old for a human in the 1700's... what do you think it was for a dog?

     

    • Gold Top Dog

         I do agree with everybody, and this made my point, we're indeed a blessed society!  We have the means to worry about our pet's health. We expect to have our dogs well into their geriatric years. Everything we care about now has the potential to live longer and he althier, our children, our pets, even our horses.

         On a whole, strides in medicine and diagnostics, have made it possible to treat or cure so many things that used to be fatal. Some people say purebred dogs have many health problems. DO THEY? I am inclined to believe that we who care about our dogs seek medical help for our pets, and as a result we are finding things that are genetic and trying to prevent them. These diseases have been around, but now we are able to figure out the causes.

         Our dogs are now living long enough for poor nutrition to factor into their old age, people too. We now have a greater understanding of the role of vitamins and other nutrients in healthy diets, but the fact remains that our beloved dogs used to be able to survive on nothing but trash, and I'm sure most of those genetics are still there. NO, I don't recomend feeding garbage!!  Just realize how fortunate we are to be able to argue the merits of various foods!