why not homecook?

    • Gold Top Dog

    brookcove

    I'm totally down with that, but that did give me a giggle.  You'd be like the anti-Crockpot commercial, since that's kind of their niche - being able to put it on in the morning and come back to dinner, all ready or almost all ready done that evening.

    Haha, anti-crockpot!  Well I guess that explains why I don't own one! lol

    • Gold Top Dog

    Willow doesn't like to eat any meat done in the crockpot.  Indifferent

    • Gold Top Dog

    willowchow

    Willow doesn't like to eat any meat done in the crockpot.  Indifferent

     

    Maybe she's afraid of leaving electrical appliances unattended also.  Wink 

    • Gold Top Dog

    There's only a few nutrients that are de-natured by cooking.  Some are changed but not "lost" necessarily.

    where you do get this idea? it's untrue. Many vitamins are heat-labile and are destroyed by regular cooking times, and totally gone after a 24+ crockpot experience. Quote from Proceedings of the Nutrition Society, UK about loss of vitamins from meat during normal cooking times:

    "Meat is an important source of certain vitamins of the B group.

    Fortunately most of these substances are moderately heat stable and so,

    though losses occur by the same mechanism as that which brings about

    losses of water soluble salts, actual destruction is not very great, and a

    considerable part of the “lost” vitamins can be found in the drippings.

    It seems to be fairly generally agreed (e.g., McIntire, Schweigert and

    Elvehjem, 1943; McIntire, Schweigert, Henderson and Elvehjem, 1943;

    Cover, McLaren and Pearson, 1944) that the loss of vitamin B, from beef,

    veal, pork or cured ham, ranges from 20 to 50 per cent. according to the

    method and duration of cooking, with a net destruction of about 20 to

    25 per cent. With an average daily intake of 1OOg. of meat and an

    average vitamin
    B, content of 100 I.U. per 100 g. raw meat there

    would be a maximum daily cooking loss of about 50 I.U. of vitamin

    B,; this could only be serious if, owing to the exclusive use of low

    extraction cereals, meat were promoted from a minor to a major source of

    vitamin B,.

    The better known members of the vitamin B, complex are more resistantto heat than vitamin B,; the losses of these substances appear,

    as would be expected, to be smaller. Thus, according to the workers

    quoted for vitamin B, losses, the loss of riboflavin ranges from 15 to

    25 per cent. (0 to 13 per cent. if the drippinga are included); that of

    nicotinic acid fiom 15 to 35 per cent. (0 to 10 per cent. including the

    drippings) and of pantothenic acid from 10 to 25 per cent. Accordingto Schweigert, Nielsen, McIntire and Elvehjem (1943), 80 per cent. of

    the biotin of meat survives cooking. "

    Loss of vitamins from potatoes cooked for normal period of time:

    "Vitamin B, and ascorbic acid are

    both subject to destruction, t.he former being heat labile especially at

    high pH, the latter subject to oxidation catalysed by copper and by

    certain enzymes, this also bcing more rapid at pH above 6. Accordingly,

    the losses are greater if cooking is slow, and especially by the initial

    raising of the temperature before enzymes have been destroyed (Allen

    and Mapson, 1944). The destruction of ascorbic acid and vitamin B,

    appears to continue after cooking is complete and the vegetables, exposed

    to air, await serving. Thus Nagel and Harris
    (1943) found that in large

    scale cooking, potatoes lost 35 per cent. of their vitamin 13, and 45 pcr

    cent. of their ascorbic acid; after standing on the hot plate these losses

    were increased to 70 and 75 per cent'., respectively. Similarly, Kahn

    and Halliday (1944) found that, although potatoes steamed in their skins

    lost little or 110 ascorbic acid even after 50 minutes on the hot plate,

    baked potatoes lost 20 per cent. of their ascorbic acid during cooking

    and a further 39 per cent. after 43 minutes on the hot plate, while steamed

    potatoes whicH had lost 39 per cent. during cooking lost ncarly all the

    remainder when mashed and allowed to stand (cf. Esselen et al., 1942)."

    grains:

    "

    It seems that, as one would expect from

    the known behaviour of pure vitamin B,, the loss in cereal cooking is
    minimized by preserving as low a pH as possible and by avoiding excessive

    heating. This probably applies also to certain members of the

    vitamin B, complex, the stability of which resembles that of vitamin B,."

    • Gold Top Dog

     After reading this thread, I have the worst urge to use my crockpot and make some dog food and I don't homecook! LOL

    • Gold Top Dog

    I can't imagion having a dog who is a picky eater.  River would eat anything!  And if it were meat, it could be coated in hot sauce, cooked or uncooked he would scarf it down without hesitation or chewing. LOL 

    • Puppy

     Just makes me want potroast... Wink

    • Gold Top Dog

    jennie_c_d

     Taurine isn't essential? Who knew? I started including hearts, years ago, to up the taurine for Emma and I did see a difference in frequency of seizures.

    Many dog breeds can make their own taurine. Some breeds, such as Dobies, cannot make enough taurine on their own, causing a taurine deficiency. This knowledge brought to you by people who study these things and make commercial kibble. Anyway, so most kibbles are now including taurine supplementation to catch the breeds that need it. The dogs that don't need it probably just eliminate it as they go.

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    According to AAFCO, the only vitamin B supp listed is B - 12, in a really small amount. Small enough to be corrected by a small supplement. How much B - 12 is in a quantity of meat or a potato? How much of B - 12 is lost in cooking? The types of vit B lost may not matter to a dog if they are not B - 12.

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    ron2

    According to AAFCO, the only vitamin B supp listed is B - 12, in a really small amount. Small enough to be corrected by a small supplement. How much B - 12 is in a quantity of meat or a potato? How much of B - 12 is lost in cooking? The types of vit B lost may not matter to a dog if they are not B - 12.

     

     

      Not sure what you mean by that Ron; the AAFCO guidelines list other B vitamins too;  

    http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+1661&aid=662

    and so does the NRC.

        I have no idea how spending a day in the crock pot affects the nutrient value of different foods, but according to Sabine, "The shorter the cooking process and the lower the temperature, the more nutrients will be preserved." When cooking Jessie's food, I simmer the meat over low heat just until it's no longer pink, and steam the vegetables. Jessie had her annual checkup yesterday and she's doing fine on home cooking; the vet thinks she is very healthy for a dog her age. She is very active and her coat is soft, thick, and shiny.

      

    • Gold Top Dog

    Thanks for providing that. I thought I might be missing something. So, how many of these vit B's are damaged and how crucial are they to a dog if they are supplemental only?

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    The article quoted above was pretty clear - if you use only meat to provide Bs, you'll reduce the amount provided by up to 50%.  ON THE OTHER HAND - to provide the energy any dog needs above 37 pounds or so, you'll be doubling to quadrupling the amount of nutrients the meat provides, because meat is so nutrient dense that NRC recommendations are met long before energy requirements are met, for most dogs (the exception is small to very small dogs).  If you don't use that much meat, presumably you'll be subbing in something - if it's grain then you'd be fine.  If it's not grain then probably you are working from a recipe that will provide B vitamin (and E for that matter) somewhere else.

    The article mentions vitamin C and of course as Ron pointed out, dogs produce C themselves from precursors in their diets.  Fresh diets accomplish this for the dog the best.  This is true of taurine as well, by the way, and vitamin K too.  Most of us supplement E now and if you don't, you should - it's highly unstable and very necessary to help the dog process even the oils we give as supplements, plus all the omega 6s they are exposed to as a result of our lopsided agricultural practices. 

    Ron, B-12 is a nutrient that is vital but the minimum needed is measured in teeny, tiny amounts.  It's a tiny difference that makes all the difference.  Without that tiny bit of B-12, all kinds of really bad things can happen very quickly - it's not a nutrient that a dog can just do without and they don't stockpile it like some of the minerals or fat soluble vitamins. 

    For instance, there was a disease in Border Collies that was misdiganosed as a fatal eye disease for several years, early in the switch from fresh meat or fresh cereal based diets to commercial foods.  Many wonderful dogs were put down and their lines extinguished, because they thought they had this disease.  It turned out, just recently, they discovered that it was a deficiency of vitamins - early commercial foods didn't add vitamins or only added A and D (a typical livestock premix).  They only really ever discovered this in BCs because they had this particular sensitivity of the eyes, and were one of the few breeds that work really, realy hard in hot weather for extended periods of time, which was what was causing the damage.

    • Gold Top Dog

    jenns
    My only issue with the crockpot idea (besides the fact that I don't have one!) is that in order to cook meat on the bone long enough for the bones to get soft, that would involve leaving an electrical appliance plugged in and ON all day, while I'm not home and I don't think I'd be comfortable with that.

     

    I am and I am not.     So........often when I am making something like soup, I start it when I get home from work and leave it on all night if I need it...turn it off in the morning before work.  

    • Gold Top Dog

    jessies_mom
    Jessie had her annual checkup yesterday and she's doing fine on home cooking; the vet thinks she is very healthy for a dog her age. She is very active and her coat is soft, thick, and shiny.

    That's great!!

    • Gold Top Dog

    brookcove

    Ron, B-12 is a nutrient that is vital but the minimum needed is measured in teeny, tiny amounts.  It's a tiny difference that makes all the difference.  Without that tiny bit of B-12, all kinds of really bad things can happen very quickly - it's not a nutrient that a dog can just do without and they don't stockpile it like some of the minerals or fat soluble vitamins. 

    For instance, there was a disease in Border Collies that was misdiganosed as a fatal eye disease for several years, early in the switch from fresh meat or fresh cereal based diets to commercial foods.  Many wonderful dogs were put down and their lines extinguished, because they thought they had this disease.  It turned out, just recently, they discovered that it was a deficiency of vitamins - early commercial foods didn't add vitamins or only added A and D (a typical livestock premix).  They only really ever discovered this in BCs because they had this particular sensitivity of the eyes, and were one of the few breeds that work really, realy hard in hot weather for extended periods of time, which was what was causing the damage.

    That is interesting. I wonder how the dogs were getting the right vitamins before then. Were they normally fed, say, a beefy stew, similar to what humans would eat?