why not homecook?

this is NOT TRUE. Maybe for light cooking, but leaving a crockpot for 24+ hours? destroys most of the vitamins.

Vitamins?  I don't depend on meat for vitamins, primarily.  It would be unwise to, since meat is rather low in vitamins anyway.  Here is a table describing the lability of different vitamins if you are concerned about this: http://www.beyondveg.com/tu-j-l/raw-cooked/raw-cooked-2e.shtml  Please note only vitamin C is highly heat sensitive.

Do you mean micronutrients?  Minerals are so resistant to heat that you can burn away your meat completely and be left with only your minerals.  That's why it's called "ash." 

Fats are changed significantly but there's little change between light cooking and long exposure to heat - once the change is done, it's done, and it happens at relatively low temps.

Of the proteins, I forget which one it is, but there is one vital animo acid which is denatured by cooking.  But if you give a tiny bit of some other raw meat, like organ meat or a recreational bone with some meat on it, it will provide the full requirement for the dog.

I'm not arguing, I just hate for people to think that Cooking Is Evil when it's not - if that's what works for you, there's no real reason not to do it. 

 Taurine says the epileptic dog owner.

brookcove

Vitamins?  I don't depend on meat for vitamins, primarily.  It would be unwise to, since meat is rather low in vitamins anyway.  Here is a table describing the lability of different vitamins if you are concerned about this

Good answer, Becca. Also, what vitamins are we talking about that a dog needs? Vit C? Dogs make their own. it's humans who can't make their own. OTOH, humans make their own Vit D from exposure to the Sun. And if the current fantasy that dogs don't eat that much vegetation on their own is going to continue, then what difference would it make if some of the vitamins leach out into the water during cooking? Of course, I know that dogs need some vitamins and that's why we won't get away from grains or vegetables. Because they have things that meat just simply doesn't have. And my dog still eats grass. Even if it's just to stimulate his GI, it is there to do that. In which case, it wouldn't matter if the grass is cooked or not. It's function, purely as a digestive aid with absolutely no nutritional value for a dog as some would state, is not defined by inherent vitamins or lack thereof. Simply roughage. But if it does have vitamins, those can be preserved by steaming the veggies, rather than boiling and draining.

For millenia, dogs have been eating whatever the humans toss to them, bones and all. If they couldn't survive on that, they wouldn't have.

Taurine actually isn't classified as, um, I'm having a brain burp and can't remember the technical term - but vital by NRC.  It's another one, I'm pretty sure.  Taurine can be manufactured by the dog - but the one that's heat sensitive is one of the precursors of taurine (and one other, too). 

LOL - Ron, I really forgot that vitamin C can be made by dogs!  I never worry about it because there's plenty in my diets just from the inclusion of other ingredients for other reasons (parsley, for instance).  Except I do have two dogs that I supplement it for joint repair benefits.

Nutritiondata.com gives the numbers for cooked meat as well as raw, so anyone concerned about the effect of cooking their dog's meat, on nutritional content, can get the lowdown there.  Don't take my word for it! 

brookcove

I keep laughing at your dishpan, Callie.  I use SEVEN bowls about the size of those dishpans, plus two for Zhi and Maggie that are sort of normal sized.  I work on the dining table and I don't know what I'd do without my processor.

I don't HAVE a big table!!  I have this wee tiny house and my enemy is space -- I only have one small surface that is big enough to put the dishpan ON.  But that's my point -- we all have challenges and we just have to figure out what the hangup is and find someone else who's done it EASIER.

That's the advantage of a forum like this -- I can pick your brain, I can pick Glenda's --  -- Dyans' not going to know she doesn't have to peel stuff unless it gets discussed!!

Dyan -- After you get "most" of the meat off the bone, take another big kettle and toss ALL the bones in that and just cover them with water and simmmer them (just like you would for soup).  It will get the rest of the meat off without stress AND then you just toss those bones and FREEZE the water and use that as the beginning cooking water for the next batch!! (or use it as the broth for your own soup -- I've got a dandy chicken soup recipe for ya!!)

I'll never forget the first cancer diet that Monica Segal sent me (this was YEARS ago when we were both still writing for AllPets) and it needed like 6 cups of cooked carrots and 16 cups of cooked squash - -I truly thot my kitchen would be ORANGE forever. 

Dyan -- another thot -- cook your meat separately in a crock pot -- literally all night long.  That WILL denude the bones with no problem and then it should have the meat tender enough to be able to pull it (pulling meat forks -- one in each hand -- thru it in opposite directions).  When you get up in the morning unplug it -- and then later in the day when you're ready to finish your stuff it will be cool enough to handle.

ALSO -- another thing I didn't think about at first -- in chicken you don't have to discard the cartilage (like at the ends of the drumstick) -- you don't want the sharp pointy bones or the actual 'bone' -- but generally the cartilage will just pop off the top and that's not only edible it's GOOD for them.  If you're trying to remove meat from cartilage that would be onerous!!

Wow...I missed a lot of these last posts.   Just want to say...I'm SURE its easier to do raw..but I honestly don't think I'm gonna.  :(    

I have cooked chicken and a bunch of veggies in a slow cooker all night several times for  Bubby and the bones became soft and I fed her the whole thing. 

I DO pick of the cartiladge off those bones... and they go right in the food.

But darn.....why did I ever think I had to peel things???????

Why did you think you had to peel things?  Sheer force of habit. 

But hey - *giggle* have you noticed when you go to restaurants now that the "new thing" is "real mashed potato" usually with "roasted garlic" -- but they've mashed the potato with the skin on???  HA!!!  Now how many of our mothers ever did that???? (even you younger gals probably always had Mom peel the potato!)

And while we're talking bout flights of "derring do" (grin) if some of you folks haven't ventured into bodegas or produce stands run primarily for the Asian or Spanish community DO IT!!!  They know more about eating vegetables than most of us ever did -- the quality is  usually superb and it's not all chemically enhanced either.  Good value, good quanity! 

Dyan -- don't neglect the veggies you wouldn't typically think of giving a dog -- bulky things like heads of cabbage and big fluffy bundles of kale.  If you came from the same WASP stock that I did -- heck I didn't even know what kale WAS until I started cooking for the dogs!!  Cheap ... superb nutrition.  Danged stuff takes forever to cook (another crock pot item!!) OR it's a great thing to put thru the food processor!! 

Cabbage -- that is one DENSE vegetable.  One head of cabbage gives you good yield!!  Because it shreds up into a mountain!

I think back on the days of yore when folks would hand my Dad BASKETS of zuchinni -- so much that everyone was baking bread and doing anything they could think of to get rid of it in the fall.  Man, I just WISH I had some of it now!! (and it's hysterical -- what passes for zuchinni down here in the south are these little bitty things -- my Mom used to get zuchinni the size of a man's bicep!)

And for Kate and those in the UK -- zuchinni = courgettes .  And swede is, I think, rutabaga.

Dyan -- another thing -- no way am I snappng beans when I can get French cut green beans frozen -- they are easier to break down than chunks of green beans but they stay bulky even when the cellulose is broken down by cooking.  And why is it that dogs LOVE green beans so much?

Callie my 1/4 chica heart rejoiced when the groceries around here started carrying what I'd consider "normal" foods in their produce sections - plantain, malanga, tomatillos, chard, verdolaga, prickly pear, jicama, mango, guayaba, papaya.   Only jicama figures in my dogs' normal diets, however, though I use Mexican zucchini instead of regular when it's cheaper at the Hispanic market.

My diets only consist of a few ingredients.  My head would explode if I had to change it up every week with nine dogs.  Since it's the same from week to week, and only a few ingredients, I can stock up, plan ahead, do ahead when I've got little moments here and there (say, get out all the apples and cut them up and bag them in weekly portions).  I have a "prep drawer" where things go that are done ahead.  The prep drawer is a happy thing - the fuller it is, the less work recipe day is. 

Ummm, folks?  Anyone ever SEEN a kitchen in a motorhome?  One counter, and a pretty skinny one at that, which holds a double sink, then probably 3 feet of counter, then turns into the stove, and then a little bit more counter after that.  That's it.  And, sorry, but some of that space is for stuff like the coffee maker, toaster oven and jugs of water since we have no running water in this weather.  My table is tiny.  Comfy benches on each side, but it's squishy to put TWO of us side by side.

I cook for my dogs in here!  Forget peeling veggies, forget using everything totally fresh...frozen veggies work too.  Sweet taters and fresh veggies get tossed in a basin, water added to wash them off (and the ones I have are actually the type they give you at the hospital to wash up in).  I sit at my little table with good sharp knife and a cutting board, and chop stuff enough to toss in the food processor, then dump it in the pot.  Might be easier to stand, but between the limited  counter space and the premium on FLOOR space in here, it's safer for me to sit with a sharp knife!

I cook in a certain order....legumes first since those take the longest, then the sweet taters and veggies, my little bit of garlic (and yep, I LIKE mincing garlic so I use fresh, but if you don't like it, well, just use that jarred stuff), a bit of fruit and meat & organ  last.  I very often use ground meats, turkey, chicken, pork, beef...it's super fast to use.  I use eggs as a liquid to process the frozen veggies.....added bonus, it adds protein, AND acts as a thickening agent, plus I have all those lovely eggshells!  These get cleaned up in the veggie water...that membrane HAS to go, and then saved until I have enough to stick in the oven to dry, so I always have a ready source of calcium supplement.

Start to finish is about an hour.  And that includes dragging everything into the house to wash.  But, I also cheat a little and buy sweet taters in bulk, process a ton at a time (usually on a food cooking day since I'll be using the food processor anyway).  I have to cook every 5 or 6 days and I'm cooking for SIX big dogs.  When I can get a good price on fresh veggies, well, I process a bunch of those two, portion and freeze.  Sometimes I buy LOTS of eggs when they are at a really good price, and I just crack those into a little baggie, in the number I need for one batch and into the freezer they go.  To me that's just part of "putting groceries away"...it's automatic.

I use wierd stuff too, like cabbage, asparagus, OKRA....my word they LOVE okra, and when you process those babies with eggs, they make a lovely, fluffy soufle!  All sorts of uncommon veggies that I find at farmers markets in season.....I don't use much fruit, but quite a variety of it.  Kiwi is one you can often find on the "sale shelves" in the produce department, even melons....if it isn't perfect and pretty, it gets discounted.Sis often decides that her freezer is too crowded and I get frozen sweet or pie cherries, rhubarb, peaches, and the dogs get those too.  My dogs get a whole lot more variety in fruits and veggies than I do, and I LOVE veggies.

Now, admittedly, I never thought I would be able to make dog food in this tiny kitchen, but by golly I do, and even manage to turn out some pretty awesome meals for US to.  You do what you have to do (or what you want to do) just by finding a way to do it.  I promise I'll never take counter space, or a full sized stove, for granted again!

Well I'm more confused than ever after reading this thread.

 Taurine isn't essential? Who knew? I started including hearts, years ago, to up the taurine for Emma and I did see a difference in frequency of seizures.

 Essential just means they have to have it in their food.  That's a lot different than giving it supplementally for heart problems or other problems.  Like we were saying earlier for vitamin C - same thing - it's manufactured by dogs using certain building blocks in their diets, but if you want them to have enough to make a difference for some particular reason, you will want to supplement it.

 And this is why we pay for consults There's too much in my head, and it's all confused.

My only issue with the crockpot idea (besides the fact that I don't have one!) is that in order to cook meat on the bone long enough for the bones to get soft, that would involve leaving an electrical appliance plugged in and ON all day, while I'm not home and I don't think I'd be comfortable with that.  It's just so much easier to toss the dogs a raw meaty bone a few times a week and do pre-made raw the others and forget about it.  And one of my dogs has a difficult time digesting veggies and carbs so he can't really eat much more than the meat and bone anyway.

that would involve leaving an electrical appliance plugged in and ON all day, while I'm not home and I don't think I'd be comfortable with that.

I'm totally down with that, but that did give me a giggle.  You'd be like the anti-Crockpot commercial, since that's kind of their niche - being able to put it on in the morning and come back to dinner, all ready or almost all ready done that evening.

My husband is the opposite.  He thinks everything is gonna be okay, just because he thinks so.  I came home from a herding clinic this weekend and noticed a huge black mark on my antique wood sink cabinet. "What IS that?" I asked, afraid to know the answer.  Apparently the sink water had frozen and he had put an LP-powered radiant heater in front of it and then gone off and done something else - for several hours.

I'm sort of in the middle.

I'm actually a raw feeder myself (raw in terms of the meat I feed).  It's just that a lot of people get the heebie jeebies about the raw thing and I hate to see just that get in the way of their trying out fresh feeding. 

A chicken, crock potted to death is almost complete and balanced (the main things it's short on are zinc and copper so a simple multivitamin would make up for that if someone were really anxious about that point), and it couldn't be simpler or safer or yummier for most dogs.  Ditto on a rabbit for dogs that are intolerant of poultry.