why not homecook?

willowchow

Willow is 53 lbs or so and maybe eats 1 1/2 cans per day.  But, aside from that, you've still got to buy whatever supplements you need separately.  And, then for me to spend all that time and effort and still walk around worried that she's not getting what she needs. . .it's just not worth whatever I would save (if anything).  For me, but everyone has to do what they feel is best for them and their dog.

Oh Lori,,,I agree its a lot of time and effort and still worry. Especially  still worry. 

I was just talking cost alone...and not knocking you or what you are doing..believe me.  I knew I had a can of EP in my cupboard so I ran to see what they suggested for feeding..because the only way I have used it was as a topping over the years.

Wondering what the can says that you feed as to how much a dog should get per pound.  Because if it were EP the suggested would mean she would need about 3 give or take..and the can does say depending on the dog and its activities. But as general start. I suppose Gibson would require more now that since he is growing and active, I mean he eats a lot more than Bubblegum did or Ollie does now.  They say that food companies ususally tell you to feed more than they usually require but I don't believe that is true with EP kibble because we have pretty much fed what they said or even a little more and kept our Danes slim. 

Again....I am not disagreeing with you, and you know I have ALWAYS agree that you should do what is right for your dog.  I am trying to consider all of my options.... and of course canned would be one of them. The more I read the more I don't want to feed kibble.  Right now I am feeding Gibson one meal of either frozen BilJac or the refrigerated Fresh Pet....     But I know that if I follow EP suggestion on how much to feed canned food, and lets say Gibby is 160 lbs....it could cost me close to $20 a day...and that is still feeding him dog food.

Dyan....you definitely have to go with what's affordable for the long run too. That's a big guy. I know of a lady at the dog park who has an Irish Wolfhound topping around 100# now, and he has another year of growing to do.

She's feeding him Innova Large Breed and he looks great.

I've read in several k-9 nutritional books that canned foods were and could actually be more harmful cause the fats were so overcooked??

Anyone else ever stumble upon this?

Canned is much less processed than kibble.  A good alternative for those with time constraints, although it can be costly.

I know it's much less processed...but it also contains more juicy fat?? I'm guessing.

I honestly don't really know.

dyan

Shew.....Lori...... my can of Eagle Pack that I have in the cupboard says to feed 3/4 to 1 1/2 can per 15 lbs.      Last I weighed Gibby he was about 85....but his Dad is 180.        Lets say Gibby stops at 150,,,,,,,,,,,,,at about $2.00 a can.   Per Day!  Who can afford that?   I dont' think I eat that much money per day. Gotta be a lot less expensive to home cook.

   Yikes Dyan; it would cost you $11.33 a day to feed Gibby at his present weight, figuring a can for every 15 pounds!!!!!!  It costs about $20 a week to cook for Jessie. She has so many food allergies; I can't use chicken or potatoes, so that probably makes her diet more expensive than a dog her size with no allergies.

willowchow

Willow is 53 lbs or so and maybe eats 1 1/2 cans per day.  But, aside from that, you've still got to buy whatever supplements you need separately.  And, then for me to spend all that time and effort and still walk around worried that she's not getting what she needs. . .it's just not worth whatever I would save (if anything).  For me, but everyone has to do what they feel is best for them and their dog.

   As I said in my last post, it felt strange to leave the safety net of using kibble, but Sabine did a wonderful job of formulating a diet which meets all of Jessie's nutritional needs while not exceeding the amount of calories she can have. When I got Optimal Nutrition last summer, I used the tables to calculate Jessie's requirements, and discovered that some of the kibbles I had used did not provide enough of some nutrients with the amount I was feeding her. But, I think canned food is a great option if you can afford it, and Willow is a very special case,

 slowly, slowly, slowly I have been moving towards the kibble in the morning, raw with cooked veg/carb in the evening for Bugsy.  And I feel pretty comfortable with that as generally balanced.  Even with the ability to get cheap pork, relatively cheap beef heart, cheap beef or pork liver and stupid cheap sweet potatoes and using frozen or canned veg it would still cost probably $40/week to feed Bugsy 'home cooked' and that doesn't include supplements.  Buying the best food I can and accounting for his allergies means his kibble is priced like gold but it isn't $40/wk. Additionally I really can't see myself measuring everything so carefully - I don't cook or eat that way myself and DH & I eat very healthy.

Although Bugsy eats a lot less now than he did I think sometimes it is hard to understand how much someone like Dyan with a giant breed puppy needs to feed and how ridiculously expensive that can be.  Sure it would be ideal but with a dane pup i can assure you I wouldn't be 'just feeding' him.  He needs a very specific balance - not all dogs do but young giant breeds most definitely do.

It is nice to put a bowl of real food out for the beast and i greatly prefer it, someday may be I'll do it every meal but I'm not there yet.

sillysally

Also, I think with special needs dogs it comes down to quality of life vs quantity of life.  If a dog that has health issues is doing very well on a particular kibble and the owner wants to switch to homecooked because they've been told it's better for the dog, then the fact that the dog's condition could actually worsen must be factored in. 

I have to qualify that and say it depends on WHO TOLD YOU to switch!!! 

The big reason *I* homecook is because it actually LESSENS our vet bills.  For example last Nov when Billy's liver values whacked out (for no discernable reason) the vet simply said to me "I want you to add pureed, uncooked wild greens and radishes to his diet to cleanse the liver ... and  add at least a few shrimp to his diet for a couple of weeks"

I'm not sure if I said it above, but Prissy was the first dog I ever home-cooked for.  That was 35 years ago -- and the vet handed me a recipe when I took her home after her pancreatitis (I spent the unheard of sum of $385 on my dog in hte "hospital" -- that was 3 months ... not four -- rent at the time).  It had ground beef, white rice, garlic powder and an egg.  That's all. 

She essentially ate that for 18 more years (she lived to be almost 21).  I didn't add "supplements" -- they were unheard of at that time.  She did get the odd bit of one spaghetti noodle with sauce or a bit of dry hamburger (cos one  tiny piece of even a pecan or walnut would make her sick enough to die!).  Years later (like when she was 18) I began to mash up peas, carrots,  and try to make them mush enough so she couldn't pick them OUT of her food. 

There 's a middle ground between fear and not caring.  And everyone has to find that for themselves.  Now me?  i'm willing to troll bodegas and fruit stands and find the veggies that don't "look" so nice, to add the fresh veggies.  I slow-cooked kale all night (it is the biggest p.i.t.a. to cook but its food value is beyond compare) to break the darned stuff down enough so I didn't have to food process it into oblivion. 

A whole lot of it is our individual lives and what we'll do.  But (scarey thot that mudpuppy and I are SOOOOO in the same place with this *grin*) I don't meaure a thing.   But I shudder when I think of how many people immediately translate "veggies" to mean carrots and that's all.  As someone said above you DO have to educate yourself a bit on what nutritional value is in what veg. 

My family NEVER got beyond carrots, peasa nd corn.  My parents are in their late 80's and still eat that way.  If you were to pick two veggies out of a vast list  for the "worst" calcium/phosphorous ratio carrots and peas would be about at the top of the list (up there with buttnernut squash *LOL* -- my mother's "other" vegetable reserved for  Thanksgiving)

I've been "cooking" for dogs for literally about 35 eyars.  And honestly I've probably learned more in the past 8 years than the rest of the time all put together.  But it's ALL been good. 

kpwlee

It is nice to put a bowl of real food out for the beast and i greatly prefer it, someday may be I'll do it every meal but I'm not there yet.

Yes...thats me too exactly!  Right now I give Gibby BilJac frozen in the morning with egg and yogurt on top..and of course probiotics.

At night he gets EP Kibble and I add a cup of mixure that is chopped chicken and ground beef, chopped mustard or collard greens, chopped carrots, pumpkin, apples and a little white or brown rice or oatmeal.  He also gets cottage cheese with that.  

Now probably in the end I am getting something all out of balance...but I seriously can't believe that it makes that much difference...

willowchow

But,  if I had another dog or any dog I have in the future I just don't see the point in cooking.  There are excellent quality canned foods out there now with lots of variety.

dyan

Right now I give Gibby BilJac frozen in the morning with egg and yogurt on top..and of couse probitics.

At night he gets EP Kibble and I add a cup of mixure that is chopped chicken and ground beef, chopped mustard or collard greens, chopped carrots, pumpkin, apples and a little white or brown rice or oatmeal.  He also gets cottage cheese with that.  

Now probably in the end I am getting something all out of balance...but I seriously can't believe that it makes that much difference...

 That actually sounds excellent and perfect to me !     I don't have an issue with commercial food.  Sure, fresh is better but there are plenty of dog that have lived long wonderful lives on commercial food.    Shoot --- sometimes I think those "by product" foods might actually have some benefit to them .... after all, aren't byproducts mostly offal and other things that humans don't necessarily eat but that a wild dog would ?

calliecritturs

A whole lot of it is our individual lives and what we'll do.  But (scarey thot that mudpuppy and I are SOOOOO in the same place with this *grin*) I don't meaure a thing.  

  Callie; you are my inspiration for home cooking. Our approach is different but the longevity of your dogs is one of the main reasons I decided to cook for Jessie.

dyan

chopped mustard or collard greens, chopped carrots, pumpkin, apples and a little white or brown rice or oatmeal.  He also gets cottage cheese with that.  

Now probably in the end I am getting something all out of balance...but I seriously can't believe that it makes that much difference...

More variety Dyan -- carrots --> do OTHER orange veggies.  Carrots actually have kind of a sucky cal/phos ratio -- squash, (all different kinds).  I almost *never* give my dogs carrots.  Try looking around a bitr more in the produce aisle -- my store carries something called "broccoslaw" - it's a relatively small package that has shredded brocoli, cauliflower, purple cabbage, and a bit of carrot.  5 veg, not one!!

Colw slaw mix -- again it's pre grated and it's several different veggies.  cook it and freeze it i portions.   Sweet potato -- man, my dogs LOVE them -- again you can fix 4-5 and mash them up with other veggies.   Just don't do the same thing day after day.  If you DON'T do the same thing you will then balance better in just the sheer variety you use.  But if you do the same thing day after day =-- THEN You are at the mercy of those few items trying to bear a 'balance'. 

We all tend to reach for the same thing time and again -- and this is where striving for that variety is SO helpful.

Try topping with sardines or jack mackerel.  Yeah, they are canned but they are DIFFERENT. 

dyan

...but I seriously can't believe that it makes that much difference...

When it comes to the cal/phos ratio it can -- because it's about the dogs ABSORBING calcium.  Now kibble is usually very heavily supplemented but when you're adding toppers, etc. you're beginning to mess with that balance a bit so you don't want to UNdog what you're trying TO do.  Make sense??

Just increase your variety.  That's all.

JoAnnDe

Shoot --- sometimes I think those "by product" foods might actually have some benefit to them .... after all, aren't byproducts mostly offal and other things that humans don't necessarily eat but that a wild dog would ?

I dont know...I suppose different companies get their by-products from different places...and the bad thing about by-products is that probably you don't get the same thing all of the time......  but then I am not feeding only BilJac anyway. 

From BilJacs website: Bil-Jac chicken by-products do not contain heads, feet or feathers-only nutritious organ meat.

Right now I feel good about what I am feeding Gibso in that I do believe in Eagle Pack....but I'm just getting more and more away from thinking kibble is what I want my dog to eat.  BilJac frozen is a least fresher food and its preserved by freezing. I raised a Great Dane/Shepherd named Cindy on it and she lived to be about 13 yrs old..... and the only health problem I had with her was she had to have ligament surgery on her knee when she was about 5 yrs old.   But one day I will be cooking for Gibson, but it wont be until he is grown and developed.    You know when I tried it a few months ago...he was starved all the time,,,and looking thinner and thinner....and started stealing food from the sink and meanwhile I was filling his bowl with food...and spending hours in the kitchen cooking it only to end up with a couple of days worth.

I'm just stating what my point of view is on this, I'm not saying I'm right or wrong and that anyone should do what I do. 

But, I do know that my days of obsessing over dog food are over.  I want to enjoy my dog and our life, not obsess about her food and spend weekends cooking.  That's where I'm at--again not saying anyone else needs to be there too.