% protein?

Kuaui, my 9yr old chihuahua has ALWAYS needed a puppy food based diet. For a long time I fed him California Natural puppy from the time he was 1 to 5yrs old or so, with a lot of homecooked mixed in.

I then switched him to Evo, made by the same company, just a grain free diet, he ate this for quite some time, again, with homecooked as well.

After hearing about so many recalls in the last year or so, I finally just decided to do strictly all home-cooked, mixing my cooked meats with a dehydrated pre-mix of veggies/fruits from Honest Kitchen which already has the calcium/phosphorus balanced for me.

Kuaui has never done good on just a basic typical adult diet food, but he has always had a fast metabolism and goes hiking with me a lot, this chihuahua's on the run a lot.

Okay, here's the answer you were looking for:  smaller dogs often do better on higher protein foods.  You can usually find, now, "small breed" special diets and this is one feature they all usually share.  Geeky answer follows. 

Your dog doesn't need a certain percentage of protein.  He or she needs a certain absolute amount (ie, X number of grams) of protein based on weight.

The way that amount is calculated is based on the weight of the dog, raised to a percentage of an exponential. That means that although larger dogs need more protein by weight than small dogs, altogether, they need less protein as a percentage of their total intake.

In the past, dog food companies fudged this by opting to offer foods that were lower protein, possibly reasoning that people could add their own food to make up the difference for small dogs.  Of course, MORE protein harms very few dogs so in reality at the bottom of the whole thing, the dog food companies were rationalizing subbing cheap carbs for expensive proteins. 

Thanks, my vet said that dogs can actually eat cat food (instead of puppy food) until they are about 4 years old, that the main difference between cat and dog food is the amount of protein.  I'm figuring a chihuahua, needing extra protein, could eat cat food forever?  I feed my cat a grain-free food called Taste of the Wild.

I guess it depends on your own definition of a "main difference"!  For me, cat food is a) more expensive and b) geared toward obligate carnivores rather than opportunistic carnivores like our dogs, so the protein profiles are somewhat different.

I would not have said there was little difference.  Cat food and dog food are quite different.  Yes, the ingredients look similar but it's the little things that matter - mineral ratios, protein profiles, OFA ratios.

Possibly, I could agree with someone saying that dogs CAN do okay eating cat food.  But my question would be, "Why?"  Taste of the Wild, for instance, gives you much more bang for the buck in a dog food.  You'd have to feed much more of the more expensive cat food to provide the same amount of calories to your small dog.

You need not worry that your dog isn't going to get enough protein from a regular dog food.  Modern foods can provide the levels that most dogs need, and then some.  If you feel your dog needs a little boost in protein, simply add a teaspoon or so of canned fish like sardines canned in water, or wild alaskan salmon, or mackerel.

The answer to why is because my cat prefers dog food.  And my dog prefers cat food.  So its really just to make life easier for everyone.  My vet said its okay but I wanted to check here because I know there are people here with a lot of knowledge about nutrition.  Since he is such a little guy at 4 1/2 pounds I would really like to free feed him.  But if I do that, the cat will eat his food and I know that cats can have serious health problems from eating dog food.  He is in pretty crappy condition.  I got him a few days ago from a "rescue"  but it turns out everything they told me about him and themselves was all lies and they are really a byb/puppy mill.  His teeth are crap.  I have to take him to the vet next Saturday to have them cleaned and possibly some extracted, to get neutered, vaccines, and dewormed.  And hopefully find out how old he really is.

I would NOT base your chi's diet off a cat food formula.

I had a Pom years ago that, our vet told us the same thing then, somewhere in the mid-80's, ate cat food primarily. 5-6mnths after starting her on the cat foods diet, we had a cat too, she became REALLY ill.

Come to find out, our Pom wasn't breaking down the amount of minerals contained in the cat's food, her liver and kidneys just about shut down...took months to rehabilitate her.

I would never do it again. One or two meals, if you're OUT of dog food for one day, fine, but do NOT feed that little chihuahua a cat based diet.

Have you thought about homecooking your own meats and mixing it with a pre-mix that already contains the proper calcium, etc?? It's REAL cheap to do this for a little dog, and so much more beneficial then a cat diet.

I won't feed him cat food.  I mean I have been for the three days that I've had him but that will change now.  Can you give me some information on the home-cooked thing?  Oh, he also is very very picky.  He will beg for people food but then will not eat it.  And would not eat the Three Dog Bakery gourmet soft dog food.  The only thing he would eat so far is ground turkey.  Not ground beef, not cheese, or anything else I've offered him (tiny peices as a treat/reward).  Oh and he stole a chicken wing.

Okay.  I thought it was okay (actually a good thing) to give him a tiny treat as a reward for good behavior/training?  Is that wrong?

Giving him a treat for doing something good is GREAT.

I think what the last poster was trying to say, is if he refuses a meal of say ground beef, don't automatically drop everything to cook him turkey.

Me however, if when I first get a dog and they've been neglected or malnourished I don't care WHAT I have to do in order to get them to eat.

His eating pickiness could very well change after his teeth have been thoroughly checked over and cleaned, this alone can make a HUGE difference if his mouth is painful.

If he were mine, you know he likes turkey, so for now, I would make him a diet of ground turkey mixed with brown rice...go simple for a couple weeks. This bland diet will not hurt him at all, then after the teeth have been checked out, and he's settled in a bit, then go from there.

You do not want to leave him on only turkey/rice indefinitely, but it surely won't hurt for a short time.

Take a look at HonestKitchen.com's website, look at the Preference formula for k-9's. All you have to do is add your own meat and anything extra...this food has the basis for starting a homecook diet.

 Also, if at all possible, try to break down the stuff he needs done, i.e. say do the teeth and the neutering at one time, that's obvious, but if you can, hold off on the vaccines for a few weeks. That's an awful lot hitting a tiny neglected body, and some dogs have been known to have bad reactions from too much all at once.

Oh okay, no when I tried the other foods that was for treats.  He has no problem at all eating the cat kibble (soon to be changed to dog kibble until I read about and possibly do that homecooked thing).  So its not that he won't eat.  I just thought it was strange that hes all for eating kibble but won't eat tasty piece cheese or hamburger, or a tasty gourmet dog food dish (looks just like people food and is people-grade food).  Going to look at that website ) 

 edited:  holding off on the vaccines is probably a good idea.  I have to worm him today as I found 3 rather large tapeworm segments on my comforter last night!!  I looked at his butt and another one was crawling out!!  Yeah.  The roads are very bad so I hope I am able to get out today.

That is strange, that he doesn't want anything to do with people food.

You know you could do a mix of kibble and homecooked, doesn't all have to be one choice.

For a kibble, seriously look at Orijen, it's the best dry kibble on the market, IMHO, as long as he's not allergic to chicken. And for a small 4# dog, your cost of this food is nothing.

It's when you get into a 55# dog that the Orijen can break the bank

Honest Kitchen is so awesome and would be no strain for you to feed such a bitty dog.  

One of our dogs had horrible teeth when he came here.  For some reason, I wasn't really thinking about it and just thought, "Silly dog" when I had to coax him into eating the raw bones that make up half their diet.  And he'd sort of eat the kibble, but he wasn't enthusiastic.

In a couple months, his teeth were cleaned off from the good diet and the bones (no need for a dental at the time - but a little dog may need a dental).  He started getting more and more enthusiastic about food and bones and now he eats anything.  Really anything.  You can hand him a sock and he'll eat it.  Paintbrush.  Stick.  Glob of vaseline.  Anything. 

Bad teeth can make a huge difference to a dog's eating habits.  Don't get too frustrated until you've gotten that taken care of.

Good luck!