Just HOW important are grains??

 An easy and worry-free way to see whether this dog simply does better on a diet which comprises some grain would be to use one of the grain-based premixes like Sojourners.

In spite of the fact that dogs certainly do best on a meat based diet and certainly as a species have no inherent need for carbs - dogs as a breed also contain many branches that have been bred for generations to thrive on the leavings from human diets.  Thus, you'll come across the occasional dog that does best on what I jokingly call "trash."  But there's nothing wrong with high quality grains that are properly processed so that the dogs can get nutrition from them. 

Boy, thats a tough question and probably has as many answers as there are people.

Thunder is on Blue Wilderness....mostly grain free with just a bit of oatmeal, because he tends to get REALLY skinny in th winter months.  So grains don't help him maintain in the winter.

I use no grains in my homecooked, but it's pretty high protein too.

There are supposed to be beneficial stuff in the grains, and lots of pet foo makers use grains to provide the vitamins, minerals and antioxidents that they would otherwise have to add in in some other form.

No, grains aren't BAD for dogs, as long as they are high quality grains, but I can't really say if they are important.

How's that for a non answer!??

I like that Glenmar....I'm even more confused....

I know good grains aren't necessarily *bad*, my fear is I've always read that carb's can feed bad things; i.e inflammation, diabetes, etc. of which, so far, we've been free of k-9 health issues, but I don't want to feed into an issue either, later on down the road...if that at all makes sense.

The one grain that appears tolerable by all is long-grain brown rice. I have been known, on rare occasion, to throw that in for a meal or two, mixed with eggs and veggies, kind of like a substitute for meat.

The Nova Scotia, Rivers, can't have any wheat, or oatmeal, he itches terribly if someone gives him a treat containing either.

I was, at one time, giving them a Sunday breakfast of oatmeal, bananas, some eggs and apples, until I discovered that's why his ears were flairing. 

What other grains can I offer to the mix, aside from brown rice?

I've tried Quinoa, they ALL threw it up, twice. I still have Millet, I've never tried it. 

One of my dogs does much, much better on a diet that includes grains.  He is mega high-energy and I think just needs the extra calories and carbs the grain provides.  My other dog, who is a couch potato prone to tummy issues, does somewhat better on a grain-free diet (but not a huge difference).  Overall I think grain-free diets are over-rated, but in the end it depends on the individual dog.

Oh crap.  now we get into that omega 3 and 6 issue and I think that the 6's are the ones that promote inflammation, but are still essential so they have to be somewhat limited.

I can answer on some of the carbs from a human standpoint.  The nutritionalist for DH when his diabetis was discovered said that some carbs are better for our bodies than others.  Sweet taters instead of white.....more good stuff in them.  Brown rice instead of white.  So balancing those carbs is far more important than eliminating them, plus of course us humans NEED carbs for energy.  And we know that cancer cells feed on grain carbs.......

So grains to try?  Corn, wheat and soy we want to avoid since those are common allergens.  Grain fragments, grain glutens.....brown rice is great, barley?  That's an ok one.  I'm afraid I'm not a big grain user, so I'm not much help on that.  Oatmeal is my old standby, but that's out for you.  jennie cd is much more knowledgeable about grains I'm thinking.

Would it be possible just to cook some oatmeal or brown rice for the little one and add it in as he's fed?  I'd almost say add more fat as well because fat is an energy source for dogs.

Again, this is really a tough question!

The beef heart I've been giving is straight from the local locker plant, and I leave all the muscle/fat on it.

Ground beef that I use, if I fed raw, would be pretty fatty, but I cook it so I rinse the grease off. I can't find solid beef cuts around here for a decent price, and I don't know if I feel comfortable feeding raw ground meats, it's my understanding they are more prone to being contaminated.

Every huge batch of food I prepare, I put in 1/4 cup of Olive oil, 3 or 4 capsules of Omega 3.s

I really like sweet potatoes for putting weight on dogs. Supposed to be strongly anti-inflammatory unlike any of the grains or white potatoes.

You can check nutriondata.com for the inflammatory characteristic of any ingredient.  White potato has an inflammatory factor of -179 which is mildly inflammatory.  Sweet potato on the other hand is +378 which is strongly anti-inflammatory.  Here's the explanation of this rating:

IF (INFLAMMATION FACTOR) RATING™ The IF (Inflammation Factor) Rating™ estimates the inflammatory or anti-inflammatory potential of individual foods or combinations of foods by calculating the net effect of different nutritional factors, such as fatty acids, antioxidants, and glycemic impact.

So sweet potatoes get a double positive "bump" with its huge levels of beta carotene and also its low glycemic index.

I like sweet potato, too. Emma does extremely well, with that, and I've found that it works for Ena (my 'trash' dog), too. Ena *has* to have a lot of carbs, to maintain her condition. Emma is the opposite. She can use some fiber, but otherwise? Pfft, gimme meat!

It's fun having dogs who are opposites! I'm about to run out of kibble. When that happens, I will be cooking up a batch of "trash" (lol, whole grains and veggies), and feeding Ena what Emma gets, with a heavy carb topper. I think it'll work, and she's essentially finished growing, now (I haven't done the ex rays to check, but she hasn't gotten taller in a few months). I'm going with no gluten grains (so no barley, or rye, or wheat, and really no oats, either), and lots of sweet potato, for Ena Bean. Emma will get some of the sweet potato, too, because she's looking a little lean with the cold weather we're having. 

I failed to mention they do get quite a bit of sweet potatoes, it's in the HK Preference pre-mix, and when I'm not using the mix, I do cook up a few sweet potatoes.

How bout pumpkin, they each get 1tsp or so every other day, it helps keep the Pomeranian regular, he's ALWAYS had a hard time pooping, with every diet.

Can I give the skinny dog more, and would it help or not?

My dogs love pumpkin.  Increase it slowly and watch the results.  Some dogs do fine with it, some not so great.  It's fibery but it's a kind of fiber that can help increase probiotic activity so it might actually help the skinny dog.  LOL 

That's actually what else I was wondering.

Is it possible that switching to homecooked actually helped get rid of unnecessary stored stuff within his system, causing him to lose weight, but actually be healthier?

I know when I totally switched my chihuahua off grains, he too, seemed to lose weight and appear extra skinny, now he's a tiny bit on the fluffy side, but not too much.

There's a time when a dog will shift from a flabby look to being "ripped" especially if the dog wasn't doing well on grains and you went to a really meaty diet.  But that won't last long and the dog will shift really fast to being obviously muscley, assuming you are offering him enough exercise.

We're talking a matter of maybe a week.  Dogs shift condition really fast under normal circumstances.  That's why it's rarely necessary or even wise to put an underweight dog on a weight gain diet.

I'd give it a couple more months if he's otherwise healthy.  At a year and a half old, he could just be going through a gangly stage.