Eating dirt? All of a sudden?

Is he doing 100% raw now?  I can't remember.  Is he sensitive to kelp?  I've found Solid Gold's sea veggie supplement to be great for dogs with oddball appetites that suddenly crop up. 

 Nope he is on mostly Orjen fish with 1-2 meals a week of raw.  No idea about sea kelp but will try and figure out an inexpensive way to test it out.

I mean he has always eaten grass - which he poops out - and munched on pine cones and wood (not eaten them though) but the dirt is a new one and he was really tucking into it 

hope you are all doing OK

Karen

The reason I like the Solid Gold is that it stays stable, you don't need a lot, it's not a "kitchen sink" supplement, and you can get a small container rather than one ridiculously large and overpriced (ie, similar products that put in a bunch of silly stuff like parsley and non-therapeutic levels of OFAs and glucosamine and then charge $25 for a pound of it).

I have a Bert's Bees product I stopped using because I was afraid it caused Ben's problem a month ago (obviously not, now).  If I weren't still unsure about it, I'd offer to mail it to you - if you want it anyway, let me know.  But you could find something better (ie, SG) locally much faster I'm sure.

Here's the ingredients in the SG Seameal - this was a supplement that got Ben's "stamp of approval."  Lactose is way down the list and never bothered Ben even when I used it every day, there's so little required (1/8 tsp for dog Ben's size)

Dried Seaweed Meal | Flaxseed Meal | Dehydrated Lemon Powder | Carotene | Chlorophyll | Vitamin B12 Supplement | Dried Asparagus Oryzae Fermentation Product | Dried Asperigillus Niger Fermentation Product | Pineapple | Lactose |

Dirt in a bag!  You just need a pinch.  It works great for poop-eating as well.  Of course, I've not had any around for a while. 

We are hanging in there, thanks for asking.  The crowd of other dogs who need my care (well Patrick's care today), helps, as does the fact that they seem to know and are helping each in their own way.  Ted has been amazing - I think he and Ben had a chat before he left and Ben entirely "passed the baton." 

 That's interesting. Ena's been showing a bigger interest in dirt, and more recently, ROCKS (great, kid, knock your teeth out!). She actually tries to eat them. I'll have to get her some sea meal. Emma can't eat it, but no reason the baby can't. 

Becca, I love it when a younger dog in the pack "steps up" like that. It's amazing to watch. I'm glad ya'll are hanging in there. 

About eating rocks: I remember reading of several cases on Monica's list about this - and they all stopped it when supplemented with her Dicalcium Phosphate.

If you're keen to stop the rock-eating you might want to hop on over to the Yahoo group K9Kitchen and ask about this.

brookcove

Here's the ingredients in the SG Seameal - this was a supplement that got Ben's "stamp of approval."  Lactose is way down the list and never bothered Ben even when I used it every day, there's so little required (1/8 tsp for dog Ben's size)

Dried Seaweed Meal | Flaxseed Meal | Dehydrated Lemon Powder | Carotene | Chlorophyll | Vitamin B12 Supplement | Dried Asparagus Oryzae Fermentation Product | Dried Asperigillus Niger Fermentation Product | Pineapple | Lactose |

 Becca, the only thing that concerns me a bit about SeaMeal is the iodine content. The amount printed on the label  may not be correct - it will depend on the batch. I checked with SolidGold, and I was dumb-struck when Elisabeth told me the actual amount because it was heaps more. Which explained why my girl got sick from it (since they already get plenty of kelp via their home-cooked). So might be worth checking ...

The thing is that with a home-prepared diet (raw or cooked), it's easy enough to adjust the nutrients. But when you're feeding a commercial diet many of which already have more than adequate levels of iodine ... then I do get a bit worried if extra heaps of iodine-rich supplements are given. Just a thought.

 Is dicalcium phosphate ok to give to puppies on commercial diets? Right now, I've got the brat on Natural Balance to see if allergies are causing the skin issues. They were definitely contributing. Now, she has very minimal, age appropriate break outs...but she chomps rocks!

Hey Britta,

I only used it therapeutically rather than as a regular part of the diet.  I don't like be-all-end-all supplements, even ones as simple as this, to augment regular diets, for the exact sort of thing you point out. 

brookcove

Hey Britta,

I only used it therapeutically rather than as a regular part of the diet.  I don't like be-all-end-all supplements, even ones as simple as this, to augment regular diets, for the exact sort of thing you point out. 

 Oh, you're such a purist

Yea, I agree - I prefer to use individual type supplements and target an issue very specifically ... rather than the scatter-gun approach. Although it depends on the dog (as always), and if you're dealing with general malabsorption you're battling uphill all the way.

I hear of a lot of people who use Seameal permanently, on top of a commercial diet. And I sometimes wonder about excess iodine in those cases.

SG used to advertise it as a supplement to their own feed products.  Even back then I wondered - if SG is so great, why do they need a kitchen sink supplement on top of it?  You're right, it would make me worry. 

jennie_c_d

 Is dicalcium phosphate ok to give to puppies on commercial diets?

My advice on that would be: No.

A good quality dry food should contain sufficient bio-available calcium and phosphorus; adding a concentrated Dical Phosphate supplement on top could seriously unbalance the diet.

Unless you think, and can somehow work out, that the amount of these two minerals your puppy is getting via the food is not as much as she should be getting at her stage in life ... I wouldn't advocate supplementing with dical - not without a vet's advice and approval. The only scenario I can envisage where a deficiency would arise would be if the pup is eating far less than she should at her age. The NB foods do meet the AAFCO mineral requirements for "growth", but they are not greatly above the minimum level (which on the whole I prefer rather than seeing exaggerated amounts of calcium and phosphorus). So a puppy that either has some serious malabsorption problem, or simply doesn't eat enough, might possibly (?) end up nutrient-deficient. That's heavy speculation though.

Does that help any?

Not sure why, but almost all our gang at the dog park dig and eat dirt.  They love it!  Mostly the moist stuff after it has rained. 

They can't all have some sort of thing lacking in their diets.  We have kibble, homecooked and raw feeders and they all love a good snack of dirt often.  We shoo them off and redirect but if left alone for a few minutes they all do it.  I think it tastes good to them and it is fun.  Pure and simple. 

FussyPoodles

The NB foods do meet the AAFCO mineral requirements for "growth", but they are not greatly above the minimum level (which on the whole I prefer rather than seeing exaggerated amounts of calcium and phosphorus). So a puppy that either has some serious malabsorption problem, or simply doesn't eat enough, might possibly (?) end up nutrient-deficient. That's heavy speculation though.

OK, having just written this, I receive a reply from Natural Balance to my enquiry about some mineral figures for the Lamb + Rice formula.

There is a confidentiality clause which means I cannot pass on any of this info (you can easily get it yourself by emailing them) - but they have provided their maximum figures for Calcium and Phosphorus. So on the basis of that, I'd be inclined to say that a Ca/Phos deficiency is really extremely unlikely if you're feeding this food.

So I took out my copy of Monica's first book (K9Kitchen) and had another look at the diagram of mineral interactions - in particular phosphorus. Well, the trouble is ... there's so many minerals all interacting; and in particular with calcium and phos! However, I did notice that molybdenum directly interacts with phosphorus.

Hmmm ... this is a very long shot. But I'm wondering about those micro trace minerals; the ones we usually don't think about, ya know? Like molybdenum, boron and all those other ones with weird names. We do know that our foods in general are becoming more and more depleted of these micro nutrients - but we still need them! So do animals.

Because of these issues (soil depletion, processed foods etc.) I started adding some liquid trace minerals to our drinking water; as a sort of insurance I guess. It's a pretty easy and safe way of seeing whether that might help with the 'rock' problem. As I said, it's a long shot, but there ain't much to lose. :)

molybdenum, boron and all those other ones with weird names. We do know that our foods in general are becoming more and more depleted of these micro nutrients - but we still need them! So do animals.

Mb is incredibly important though it's needed in only the tiniest amounts.  And it's one of the first to degrade in a high-pressure agricultural situation.  A deficiency of it decreases the ability to uptake calcium and and also increases copper exposure.  The latter is a problem for sheep primarily.   We had our soil tested and typical of many old pastures, it's low in calcium and Mb and several other important nutrients.  Mb is also linked to the ability to process B12, which is important for mental function.

Dogs do very well with simply adding all these micronutrients, but it shouldn't be done willy-nilly for sure.