Another recall

Thank you for posting this.  While I don't use any thing they make, I have a lot of family and friends who need to be alerted.

Forwarding this on too Gibons breeder.....she feeds the puppies Pedigreed. She wanted me to feed Gibby it also for the first few months so that he does'nt grow too much. I switched him off soon after...but still have the bag...been using it as "treats" for training. Better go check the UPC.

Thanks!

Hold onto your hats folks.  What they do NOT mention is that Mars also makes Nutro.  Remember the Diamond recall that only affected a few states?  Here we go again.

That why I feed fresh. Good enough for me, good enough for him.

I went to the mars website to see which other brands they make.  I didn't see Nutro listed but "Natural Dog" and "Natural Cat" (sold at Sam's club) and Ol Roy were listed.       Below is the full list of products that have been recalled - hopefully that's ALL of it.   the recall is for salmonella.

glenmar

Hold onto your hats folks.  What they do NOT mention is that Mars also makes Nutro.  Remember the Diamond recall that only affected a few states?  Here we go again.

I think what you're referring to is that Mars is now the parent company owner of Nutro. But Nutro still has their own plants, their own QC.

http://www.nutroproducts.com/press5-1-07mars.shtml

Ron, ya know how much I love you, but even the Nutro rep is worried.

RaceProfessor, I sure hope that you are balancing your dogs calcium and phosperous?

glenmar

Ron, ya know how much I love you, but even the Nutro rep is worried.

I appreciate that. And I hold no loyalty to Nutro. As long as it performs, I will use it. OTOH, they no longer have the Lamb Meal and Rice Large Breed Adult formula that he has always done well on, so, I've been feeding him senior formula since he is now 5 years old.

I don't make excuses for them nor do I think it is a superior food. But the formula I had him on did so well. To borrow an old phrase, even a blind hog finds an acorn, now and then.

But I'd just about rather switch to Eagle Pack. It's a similar profile. I don't like the Nutro senior formula as it is not meat first and I don't think 5 years old is senior, just yet, even for his predominate breed, which can live 12 to 14 years and often more. I knew of a Siberian doing quite well at 16 on Purina.

My problem still remains one of perspective. When it comes to judging a dog food, regardless of name or cost, it's not about what I think is good, it's about what he needs to eat. And for him, the simpler the food, the better.

But if all the foods change, and not for the better, then I might have to switch to homecooked and supps.

There's a vitamin store in Sherman that also sells Eagle Pack but I think the selection is better at Canine Comissary in Plano. It's about 40 miles away but that's not a big concern for me.

ETA:

Between posting previously and this edit note (several hours. Errands, dog walking, mowing the lawn) I checked out the Eagle Pack site and would probably choose either the Maturity formula or the Holistic Large Breed Adult though I would probably try the latter carefully. I have not had a good experience with holistic in the past. I really need to go back and compare the calcium. Anyway, had another thought. Since Mars has owned Nutro since last year, is it possible that the formula he did so well on that is no longer being offered possibly due to corporate decisions from Mars? That is, if it wasn't selling well enough they just quit making it, whereas Nutro before was a family run business and would keep making a formula because they knew a dog needs what it needs, regardless of human business acumen. According to EPs site, they are still a family owned and operated business. And I do like the primary ingredients better, even though it is chicken meal. I valued the lamb meal in Shadow's old formula because lamb is high in linoleic acid.

As for homecooked, I do have an option to have a nutritionist design one for me (for a fee, of course) as I don't expect that I would get it right on my own, no matter how good I am at math. That is, either getting the right supp package or the few supps that are necessary, but I could certainly see making chicken and rice or beef and something.

On Eagle Pack.  It's a terrific food.  I have a dog that just plain does better on corn-based foods (I know, horrors!).  So the Holistic line was obviously a non-starter for him.  The regular did great.  I trust them as far as I'd trust any commercial product.

On home cooking.  It's true that you don't have to make it difficult.  Ben is on a diet plan designed for him with his allergies and recent bout with liver disease, in mind.  It's nothing more than fish, potato, sweet potato, parsley, garlic, and supplements. He's now my easiest dog to cook for (a tad expensive though).  The rest of my dogs get some variety but not much - really it would be possible for any of them to do a rice and meat, or oatmeal and meat, cooked diet.

Monica Segal likes cooked diets very much - if you sign on to her e-mail list you can see the files she's collected, peer-reviewed studies, explanations on how to go about deciding which direction to go (what meats, what starches if any, cooked or raw or both).

Her newest book is like the HGTTG - of which the theme is, "Don't panic!"   Especially when the recalls roll around again.

ron2

I appreciate that. And I hold no loyalty to Nutro. As long as it performs, I will use it. OTOH, they no longer have the Lamb Meal and Rice Large Breed Adult formula that he has always done well on, so, I've been feeding him senior formula since he is now 5 years old.

  Ron, did that formula have rice gluten? I ask because I was feeding Jessie the Large Breed Lamb and Rice Puppy last summer and she did great on it. They have discontinued it too. I'm fairly certain the reason they stopped making it is because they couldn't find a reliable source for rice gluten, which was one of the ingredients.

  I agree that Eagle Pack is a very good food and as you probably remember, I used to feed the Duck and the Lamb to Jessie (she can't have chicken, pork, or salmon).  Although she did well on those foods, her coat was still dry, even though I added fish oil. I learned from an article my vet gave me that dogs with environmental allergies (she has those too) lose a lot of moisture through their skin and do better on foods with a high amount of zinc and linoleic acid, so I tried the Nutro and her coat was much better. If you're wanting a food with meat as a first ingredient and also is high in linoleic acid, Nutro Max Large Breed may work;

http://www.nutroproducts.com/mxdry-lbadult.shtml

  I have fed the puppy version of that in place of the lamb and Jessie's done very well on it.

Many of the companies that source their lamb in the US are having trouble GETTING lamb.  I don't know if there is an epidemic shortage, or just what the deal is, but I do know that Blue uses New Zealand free range lamb.  I don't think Blue would be an option for Shadow since there are a lot of different ingredients, so not a simple formula, but the lamb is my guys absolute favorite.

Mars makes a HUGE variety of brands, many even worse than Pedigree.  Their Doggy Bag is the one that as I recall, doesn't even use MEAT!  The Nutro Ultra is pretty decent, but man, pretty pricey!  From ten bucks for a 50 lb bag to dang near $50 for 40 lbs.....go figure!

They just don't want to pay lamb prices.  Grass fed lamb is actually becoming a popular option as a table meat, and at the same time we in the US just went through a massive drought.  Lamb prices are high. 

I appreciate the help from everyone. Since he is 5 and not prone to grow anymore, worrying about calcium level might be moot. Which leaves only the protein level. His coat still looks great and his energy is just fine. He eats the food well enough and shows the same desire for it as anything else I have fed him. And I still give him bits of meat, too.

Even though I normally feel "if it works, don't fix it" which keeps me out of most nutrition debates these days, I sometimes can't resist tweaking the feed a bit or changing feed, if necessary. And, I trust vets and CVNs but, as many here, I don't trust some suit on Wall Street for my dog's food based on his profit margin. Granted, he has to make the margin for the stockholders. I think it is "bottom line" people that lead to outsourced ingredients that led to our recalls. Even within the companies we prefer. Since it is so expensive to tool for a wet food plant, it is easier to job out that item.

OTOH, I do believe the pet food industry did start out as a way to make money off of middlins and meat scraps, stuff that dogs ate anyway as in life on the farm, where the humans might throw the parts of chicken or beef they weren't going to eat and the dogs ate that and nibbled on grass. It wasn't a perfect diet but it never is. Nowadays, pet food is a designer market with an increasingly erudite and educated consumer who wants certain things from the pet food, including holistic varieties.

Most everyone here, myself included, knows more about canine nutrition than most of the reps trying to sell us food. Some of us may know nearly as much as a vet does. And I certainly know more about it than I would have 20 years ago. The internet might be Pandora's Box, but learning is priceless.

So the part my understanding that appreciates science and understands the actual process of making kibble knows that the pre-process mix is not important and it is truly the as-fed profile that matters to the dog's nutritional needs. I, more than most, may see dogs as omnivores, but even I think that the dog is omnivore with a stronger lean toward meat than even humans. Although, granted, a protein is a protein, regardless of the source.

Maybe I worry about nothing. But, hopefully, at least I am paying attention.

jessies_mom

Ron, did that formula have rice gluten

I just came from the Nutro site as I was going to answer your question. It's not even on their site, anymore. Let alone being carried around here. So, now, I can't remember if the large breed adult L and R formula used rice gluten. I don't think it did.