Adding home cooked to kibble...

 Yes; I've been doing it for years, and am about to switch to 100% home cooked. It will probably be cheaper for you; Steve's is very expensive.

Its a great idea.    According to Monica Segal you can add 1/3rd fresh food without throwing off the vitamin / mineral balances in commercial food.  Prancer gets 1/3rd canned, 1/3rd kibble and 1/3rd homecooked.   Its an easy way to improve a diet

Now do I need to add a supplement if I'm adding the home cooked to the kibble?  Many of the recipes in the book call for Balance It or and/or bone meal...   

According to Monica Segal as long as the homecooked is 25% - 33% of the total you shouldn't need a supplement.

I can tell you that for Prancer, giving her 1/3rd kibble and 1/3rd canned had her receiving enough of EVERY nutrient (according to the NRC) except for a couple of the B vitamins and selenium.   That was even BEFORE I added in whatever she got from the homecooked !  

The only thing you might want to look at is the Calcium:Phosphorus ratio.    I do add a little calcium (powdered eggshell) to the meats I give to Prancer, but I don't need to add the full amt because the Ca:P ratio in her kibble is already better than 1.2:1

JoAnnDe

According to Monica Segal as long as the homecooked is 25% - 33% of the total you shouldn't need a supplement.

I never really got this because you are balancing the meat you are adding in not the entire meal. 

willowchow

I never really got this because you are balancing the meat you are adding in not the entire meal. 

  The information JoAnneDe is referring to comes from one of Monica's booklets. The home cooked food you add is in a certain ratio of meat, root vegetable, and green vegetable. I don't want to mention the name of the booklet or the exact ratio because of copyright laws, but the mixture has more nutrients than meat alone.
 

jessies_mom

willowchow

I never really got this because you are balancing the meat you are adding in not the entire meal. 

 

  The information JoAnneDe is referring to comes from one of Monica's booklets. The home cooked food you add is in a certain ratio of meat, root vegetable, and green vegetable. I don't want to mention the name of the booklet or the exact ratio because of copyright laws, but the mixture has more nutrients than meat alone.

 I never really "got it" either, but I think its because other than organ meat there isn't enough of any mineral to throw off the balances.    After having run the numbers it also appears that the AAFCO provides WAY more by way of nutrients then NRC recommended amounts (at least that's the case for 13# Prancer).

Jessies_Mom - not sure where the info about root and green veggies comes from in the booklet.   I read it as they are optional and not required.   The thing with veggies is that the minerals in them are probably not as well absorbed - which is why they "don't really count".

The only thing that needs to be balanced is Calcium:Phosphorus in the homecooked additions.   Since many "high quality" dog foods actually have a higher Ca:P ratio then needed I think they assume that we're going to be adding additional meat - or at the very least, formulating so that we CAN add extra fresh meat without screwing things up too much.     If you write to the companies many of them will tell you how much additional meat you can add without having to add calcium.    The ones that have a ratio closer to 1:1 will tell you you cannot add any meat without also supplementing calcium.    Some of them tell you you can't supplement ANYTHING at all --- but I think they're just thinking about how much less your dog will eat of their product if you're also feeding fresh foods.

When you are talking about micronutrients in a diet you are talking about two factors.

1. Absolute values.  Dogs need absolute values of various things supplied.  NRC takes into account absorption ability up to a certain point (ie, available versus as fed).  But see the next point.
2. Ratios.   Minerals in particular act upon each other and so require not only absolute levels but also to be supplied in correct ratios.  Ca and Ph interact.  Ca, Fe, and zinc all interact.  Fe and copper interact, as does zinc and copper.

With regard to the first point, there's a really wide range for most values.  Relatively speaking (compared to many other species), all values have an amazingly wide range.   Mostly one is concerned about supplying minimum levels for optimal health, and for that it doesn't take a huge amount of food formulated to AAFCO standards (we've discussed before how over supplementation is a concern there).

With regard to the second point, this is where you have to tread carefully in adding food.  Some nutrients have a more fragile ratio balance than others, with greater consequences for errors.  And some foods are more nutrient dense than others.

For instance, you can add a ton of veggies, grains, root veggies, most fruits - as long as you've first started with enough food to provide those minimal levels of micronutrients, you can then add an unlimited (pretty much) amount of these less nutrient-dense foods without throwing anything off.  Your only limit then is what the dog will tolerate, will eat, and is able to eat in terms of calories.

You cannot do the same with meat and/or bone.  These are mineral-dense and when you start playing with them you will see your mineral ratios start jumping up and down wildly. 

If you stick to the 25% rule you'll be totally fine no matter what you are adding (within reason).  If you go up to 33% you'll want some of that to be the less nutrient-dense stuff - if you are doing it long term.

You'll note that this doesn't apply for the occasional fun meal or therapeutic diet plans.  Dogs can tolerate very long stretches of imbalance, so no need to feel guilty about the occasional indulgence or any previous errors.

Becca - you said it all there !    thanks for that