TOTW (again) Need something else.

Although not really low carb,(yet it does contain rice)  I know a lot of "athletic dog" owners who love the Artemis Power Formula--helps to maintain weight and coats are nice. 

You may also want to look into the Pinnacle Peak Performance formula.

I've also heard good things about Eagle Pack Power Formula---it does have corn in it---don't know if your dogs have sensitivity to it. 

Diamond Naturals has an Extreme Athelete Formula that may be worth checking into, as well.

Chicken soup is a fine food, just not sure it will have the protein/fat levels you might need for an active dog. 

Just some thoughts.

My livestock guardian dogs eat the Diamond Naturals Extreme Athlete.  It's not grain free but it has the same fat/protein levels as many of the grain frees.  It's more closely geared to maintaining condition on performance dogs.

Do you supplement with fish oil?  My dogs whose coats were sensitive to the wrong kind of food, did best on TOTW and Core - Core best of all.  But Core is NOT a performance diet - even my easy keepers had to eat a lot of this to maintain.

Last summer I had some luck with NV Instinct with hard keepers - but I wasn't thrilled with how it did with their coats if I didn't supplement with fish oil.  Of course, I now supplement regardless of their diet (it's all homemade now).

Good luck!
 

 I don't supplement with fish oil because until now their coats have been great. I'd like to feed a food that doesn't require supplements if I can find it. I have not tried Diamond Extreme but I am thinking about it. I heard that it was a good food for high metabolism dogs. We've done Core but they didn't do well digestively on it. Plus, like you said, it doesn't have enough fat/carbs - not to mention it's crazy expensive!

 Barking at the Moon or Orjen?

How about PetGuard Lifespan?  This food has performed the best for my dogs (I use dry and canned) of all the dog foods I've tried (and I've tried a LOT!)  It has something like 400+ calories per cup and is chicken/brown rice based with chelated minerals.  On my minpin- his coat is beautiful dark red and shiny silky.  My bichon girls have wonderful thick coats which grow quite quickly. 

no foot chewing, no yeasty ears, no itchy skin, nice stools, no gas.  Good stuff. (I think :))

Jewlieee

 I don't supplement with fish oil because until now their coats have been great. I'd like to feed a food that doesn't require supplements if I can find it.

Personally, I don't think that you can put high quality Omega 3s into a kibble so this is something I always recommend giving as a supplement. They just aren't stable enough. Look at how they are packaged and stored. If you get fish or flax oil in capsules, the bottle is always dark to protect from light. If you get it in bulk form in a bottle, it always needs to be refrigerated after opening.

samshine

Personally, I don't think that you can put high quality Omega 3s into a kibble so this is something I always recommend giving as a supplement. They just aren't stable enough. Look at how they are packaged and stored. If you get fish or flax oil in capsules, the bottle is always dark to protect from light. If you get it in bulk form in a bottle, it always needs to be refrigerated after opening.

That's one way to look at it, sure. However, Neiko was in a fish oil study recently where he ate 5 fish oil capsules per day for 30 days and it didn't have any noticeable effect on his coat. He was eating Innova Evo at the time and his coat was already very silky, shiney and soft. What the fish oil did do, though, is helped him metabolize fat so that he lost 3 lbs over that month while staying physically fit and toned.

Fish oil is not primarily for skin/coat health.  It helps, but the n-6s (linoleic in particular) are actually more important in that respect.  Fish oil supports the immune system, heart health, and helps the body repair damage caused by oxidation during strenuous activity.  It also helps brain function.  DHA is vitally important to growing puppies for the proper development of their nervous system, and EPA is required to stabilize mood (it's needed to build the chemicals that tell the brain "we are happy now" and "that was enough";).

n-3s are particularly sensitive to light and ordinary oxidation.  In other words, these fatty acids go stale very quickly at normal temps and oxygen levels unlike n-3s and n-9s which take longer, or need higher temps/oxygen saturations.  So, unfortunately, there's no way that even extra omega-3s added to a bag of food, could possibly be present in any amount once it's bagged, warehoused, shipped, shelved, and purchased.

Plus, todays meats are pathetically low in omega-3s because they are fed grain rather than grass and grown out and slaughtered in mere months rather than living a normal lifespan.  Poultry and rabbit, in fact, are mere weeks old when they are slaughtered.  Even grass fed products are undersupplied with omega-3s because our soils are so depleted.

I supplement with fish oil, the best source of omega-3s for pets, plus vitamin E which ensures correct antioxidant levels are maintained in conjunction with the oil supplement.  It's so easy to do I figure why take the chance?  Many vets recommend it, as do veterinary nutritionists and small animal dietary specialists.

Today's children's products are supplemented with DHA, since this has become a concern among pediatric nutritionists, plus many pediatricians recommend supplementation with a fish oil product made for children (we do).  If it's important enough for human doctors to take notice, I think it only stands to reason that I can improve my pet's diets with this one small addition.

Thanks Brookcove! Great post, very informative and well said.

Solidifies my belief that every dog eating kibble should get an Omega 3 supplement.

So how many capsules do you think are appropriate for a 40-45lb dog per day?

 During the research project, Neiko got 5 per day and he was 50 lbs at the time.

 Julie I think that was overkill so to speak for the sake of the study.  Janice (Jessie's mom) has the right ratio's and has posted them several times.  But I think the normal dose for Bugsy is one capsule of the 1000 or 1200 mg's. Balanced with 400 iu of E -  BUT I AM NOT CONFIDENT OF THOSE NUMBERS!

Our vet also said that Fish oil is an excellent anti-inflammatory.

Bugsy gets 3 capsules a day to help with his allergies and it sure seems to help  - we have just moved to a fish based food (Orjen) so I will likely drop it to 2 capsules.

 Hmm, I haven't thought of the anti-inflammatory aspect of it. That is a really good point. That would certainly be helpful. Maybe I will look in to giving them fish oil as part of their daily routine.

You don't look at amount of oil, you look at combined g of EPA+DHA.  Normal to ensure good health is .03 per kg dog weight ^0.75 (to the power of 0.75).  You can double or even triple that for therapeutic results such as anti-inflammatory support, immune boosting (including allergy-itchy skin), or mood enhancement.  It's not recommended that doses exceed .37 g per kg of body weight ^.075.

Be careful when you shop for fish oil.  A brand may look like a good bargain but they'll often list EPA+DHA per serving instead of per capsule.  And watch for other oils to be added.  The best oil comes from wild cold water fish - anchovy, sardine, or salmon, and is guaranteed to be free of heavy metals.  Steps to ensure freshness are also a must.  enteric coatings are fine for dogs (their stomachs hold food longer than ours so it will still dissolve).  But it's really just money down the drain since they are typically more expensive. 

Dogs should get 100 mg of E daily for each 25 pounds, up to 400 mgs total for any dog (so a 100 pound dog and a 150 pound dog still get no more than 400 mg of vitamin E).  Vitamin E is fat-soluble so you can give an 8 pound dog a 100 mg capsule to cover its needs for 3 days with no problem (unlike vitamin Bs which must be given daily).