Looking for good raw information...

    • Gold Top Dog

    Looking for good raw information...

    I've been really considering feeding raw for a long time and have been researching it, but its difficult to know what to believe.  Bleh!  Everyone says something different, and obviously the vets I've talked to aren't too happy with the idea (but, of course, they push science diet, so I'm not too happy with their idea of "good dog food" either).  So are there any really good websites with good, credible information?  I've looked at a few so far that I like, but I want to make sure you all that feed raw already think that they are good...lol!

    http://www.rawfeddogs.net/

    http://www.rawfed.com/myths/index.html

     Everything sounds great so far, and from what I've calculated, its actually cheaper!  Even though I will be spending more time on it.

     I did have a concern though.  I was planning on putting Rafe's exercise pen up in the kitchen (since he likes to pick up his food and eat it on the carpet...and, um, I really don't want that on my carpet...lol!).  But my boyfriend was wondering if he could carry salmonella on his fur (like if he were to lay down in the floor where the raw chicken had been after he'd eaten it), and then that got me to wondering, too.  Any thoughts on that?  I'm not extremely worried about it, because I'll obviously be cleaning everything very well, but that one kind of got me thinking.  I kind of doubt it will be a problem, since my trainer has never had a problem and I couldn't find anyone on the net that said they'd had a problem, but it was an interesting though.  Anyhoo, let me know what you guys think! 

     

    • Gold Top Dog

       You can purchase a booklet for $6.95 with carefully balanced raw diet recipes from Monica Segal's website;

    http://www.monicasegal.com/catalog/product.php?cPath=25_26&products_id=81

      Here's some info about her;

    http://www.monicasegal.com/aboutus/aboutus.php

     Here's a link to her newsletters if you want to get an idea of the kind of expertise she has;

    http://www.monicasegal.com/aboutus/newsletter.php
    • Gold Top Dog

    The ideal thing is to get an expert to carefully balance a diet for your particular dog (or do a ton of research and do it yourself).  Well, no, actually the really ideal thing is to feed your dog whole prey - rabbits, game birds, poultry, and small ruminants, complete with all the icky parts.   There's a reference, I think in Monica Segal's new book, to a peer reviewed journal article that shows that whole rabbits are indeed perfectly balanced for dogs.

    But, to get started, http://rawdogranch.com has excellent information on the basics of raw feeding.  You can see whether it will agree with your dog, and your own schedule, before you commit to a particular philosophy or spend money on consultations.

    As for the germs - you can feed in a crate, or teach your dog not to move the food around, to avoid the spread of germs.  Salmonella is pretty much everywhere anyway - what your dog gets off his food is minor compared to, for instance, stirring meat when raw, then using the same spoon when it's almost done, right before serving - or the vast number of germs that live in the sink, a dishtowel, or a sponge used to wipe down counters.

    It's really only when you have someone in the house who is immune compromised that one has to be very cautious, or possibly consider cooking instead.

    Contrary to popular belief, you do not avoid salmonella when you feed commercial products only.  If anything, there's been more documented cases of cross contamination that originate from commercial food.

    • Gold Top Dog

    I tried a rawfed group (don't remember which one), but knew without a doubt after reading just a couple of post that I would not stay there.  They were militant!  As in, don't even feed plain pumkin for loose stools.  I ran screaming away as fast as I could.   I have read a bunch of books, but none just fit me.

    Finally I settled into a group that accepts raw feeders, homecookers, and some even do kibble or one meal kibble and one meal raw.  There is a lot of discussion on raw (and tons in the archives), and has balanced discussions.  Its about overall health, and not just 'one way to feed'.  For exacmple, I don't feed bones to my guys (broken teeth and I am not at all comfortable with it), and others that feel that way will even grind the bones.  But, even tho I don't feed raw bones, I could tell you the percentage simply because it is discussed often.   It is a yahoo group called k9nutrition.  You can google their archives and find a lot of info. about nutrition.   Also, dogaware is a very good site to get you started.

    It is a bit more difficult for a puppy in terms of calcium, but it is easier for adult dogs.  Since I don't feed bones, I supplement with calcium.  I also give cooked veggies (avoiding the ones that are toxic, of course) as the fiber source to move the meat along.  A certain amount of bone or calcium supplement (if not feeding bone) , a certain amount of organ meat, and vary the types of meats that are given are the very basics to build upon.  Variety is important.

    I think if you have a severly immune compromised person (or a very young baby), then I would be concerned.  But, for normal people, I don't think it is a worry about germs.  I have read that even kibble has salmonella and most dogs shed it in their poops, just from kibble feeding.    If you decide to feed bones (and many people are very cautious about chicken and turkey necks -- if people do feed them, they usually split them down the middle as well as crosswise to keep the dog from choking, so you do learn about types of bones to feed), anyway, never feed cooked bones (I'm sure you know this, but for others reading, I will repeat it).  I'm tired and rambling....what I started to say is you can leave them on the kitchen floor, or put a tarp or large towel down and teach the dog to stay by taking the bone away and putting it back on the towel repeatedly until the dog learns to stay on the towel. 

    I have fed raw meat with cooked veggies, and this just goes into a bowl.  I use a spray bottle with white vinegar in it, and I spray down the counters or floors for cleaning.  That's the only thing I''ve used in the last couple of years --- just plain vinegar and wipe it down with a paper towel that I throw away. I am careful about turning on the facuet and opeing up the fridge door, etc.....normal precautions with raw meat.

    I thaw the meat in the fridge in a crisper.  I don't like to take chances by thawing on the counter, but I did learn it takes a couple days for things to thaw out!  Well, I've rambled enough.

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    If you decide to feed bones (and many people are very cautious about chicken and turkey necks -if people do feed them they usually split them down the middle as well as crosswise to keep the dog from choking

    Actually that's the first I've heard of that.  I feed these bones whole - the larger the piece is, in fact, the safer it is as a general rule, though most raw bones really have a high safety factory anyway.  But larger bones get gnawed, while pieces may be swallowed intact.  And, while we expose sharp surfaces when we cut a bone, a dog's chewing action will dull the edges by crushing them.

    • Gold Top Dog

    i have nevr heard of splitting the necks down the middle.I feed them whole as well.They are a BIG favorite here.The chicken necks are a great size for my small dogs.Never have i ever had any choking problems.

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    • Gold Top Dog

     My dog is large and can't have chicken or turkey necks however he gets pork neck bones and just crunches them up no choking issue at all.  He has made me VERY nervous with rib bones though as the whole thing fits in his mouth so I don't feed those.

    He is trained to lay on a towel when he eats his raw bones, it took a little bit but now as soon as his towel comes out he is excited and he doesn't get off it except to get another bone from his bowl Stick out tongue

    Honestly I don't think the concern of contamination is any more than 'normal' if you cook.  The bones don't last long and once done the towel goes in the wash.  I handle raw meat to cook and I handle raw meat for him

    • Gold Top Dog

    Thanks for all the good info!  I will definitely check out the Monica Segal's book, but my main plan was to feed like prey (mostly whole chickens and whole rabbits), but I'd need to split them up since Rafe really doesn't need the whole thing in one day, and it would be great to have help with that.  Thanks again, and obviously I'll be doing more research before actually starting him on a raw diet, but I'm pretty sure already that this is the way I'd like to go.