what to try next

    • Gold Top Dog

    what to try next

    I need to find a food that does not give Zack poop issues.  When I first got him the breeder was feeding a mix of a sam's club brand and pro plan.  Since I don't have access to sam's club I bought the pro plan small breed puppy to start with the intention of switching over to something else.  Well his poop had been large and somewhat soft in the beginning, not to mention very smelly!  So I switched him to Orijen (which Zoe is doing very well on) and now is poops were even larger and softer.  Then I tried California Natural, and while the odor has improved dramatically, he now has diarrhea.  I figured the California natural would do the trick because it is lamb and rice, just like what the breeder was feeding, and has simple ingredients. I did switch the foods gradually but maybe not gradually enough because I ran out of pro plan so I could not do the mixing as long as I probably should have.  Any ideas on what I can try next?

    • Gold Top Dog

     How long are you keeping him on one food?

    I would stop switching and let him get used to one food. Try giving a little pumpkin (no spices) and yogurt every day for a week and see if anything improves.  

    • Gold Top Dog

    Ah yes, I forgot about the pumpkin and yogurt.  Great idea. 

    • Gold Top Dog

         What about Purina ONE? It's very similar in formulation to Pro Plan - however, when I tried the Pro Plan, I had similar problems. A few of mine had loose or ploppy stools on it, otherwise, they looked good. We feed Purina ONE in the winter for the extra protein, and all the dogs have great coats, yet the stool is much firmer. Right now, due to the warmer weather, I'm using a lower protein feed, regular Purina Dog Chow, and stools are VERY firm. JMHO Smile

    • Gold Top Dog

    HoundMusic

         What about Purina ONE? It's very similar in formulation to Pro Plan - however, when I tried the Pro Plan, I had similar problems. A few of mine had loose or ploppy stools on it, otherwise, they looked good. We feed Purina ONE in the winter for the extra protein, and all the dogs have great coats, yet the stool is much firmer. Right now, due to the warmer weather, I'm using a lower protein feed, regular Purina Dog Chow, and stools are VERY firm. JMHO Smile

    Is it me or do I not see any meat anywhere in Purina dog chow???  Am I blind?

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    CoCo Chanel

    Is it me or do I not see any meat anywhere in Purina dog chow???  Am I blind?

     

         Yup, there is meat in plain Dog Chow. Not the first ingredient, yet 3 of the first 5 ingredients are actually animal based meats & fats. It's a grain based feed, but I want something low in protein for the summer, to make up for the high protein the dogs eat in the winter coupled with their lower activity levels in the summer. I also supplement with raw meat 1-2x weekly. It works for us, and works very well. Since the OP had tried Pro Plan, and since we'd had similar issues with ploppy, soft stools on that food, I suggested mainly the Purina ONE since the formula is quite similar but stools were firmer.

    • Gold Top Dog

    FourIsCompany

     How long are you keeping him on one food?

    I would stop switching and let him get used to one food. Try giving a little pumpkin (no spices) and yogurt every day for a week and see if anything improves.  

     

    I agree, OR do a bland elimination diet between switching foods. 

    • Gold Top Dog

    FourIsCompany

     How long are you keeping him on one food?

    I would stop switching and let him get used to one food. Try giving a little pumpkin (no spices) and yogurt every day for a week and see if anything improves.  

    I would definitely put him on a bland diet in between switches, and keep the pumpkin and yogurt on hand during transition.  I will say that I've transitioned Honor onto Innova, and it's working very well for her.  Her poops are much smaller, and she doesn't seem to have any digestive trouble anymore.  She's also shedding less, which may be the food or my manic brushing.Stick out tongue Innova makes a puppy food that may work for your pup.

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    What would be considered a bland diet?

    • Gold Top Dog

    I honestly don't understand ... why is the size of the poop and the smell even an issue?  If you go for "small" poops you automatically increase geometrically the incidence of anal gland issues **particularly** in a small dog.  Now a well formed bowel movement is an indication of a healthy dog ... and well-formed fecal matter also makes sure the anal glands are being expressed.

    *My convenience* isn't even criteria in what i feed my dogs.  (and yes, I'm the one who picks up outside)  Not giving them carcinogens in their food is a big issue for me so ProPlan and Purina aren't even on the starting list.  But then ... this is also why I don't feed kibble. 

     

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    calliecritturs

    I honestly don't understand ... why is the size of the poop and the smell even an issue?  If you go for "small" poops you automatically increase geometrically the incidence of anal gland issues **particularly** in a small dog.  Now a well formed bowel movement is an indication of a healthy dog ... and well-formed fecal matter also makes sure the anal glands are being expressed.


         Well, all poop is going to smell, but those large ploppy turds are a definite sign the food is not well digested. I personally don't want a food that produces that type of poop as it leaves a residue and noticable smell in the yard even after the poo is picked up. I live in a residential area and my neighbors don't need to smell what my dogs had for breakfast Tongue Tied lol
         Also, size of poo does not so much correlate to anal gland issues as it does with the firmness of stools as they pass. A firm poop will naturally express the anal glands, small or large. I fed all raw for 3yrs - poops were tiny and firm yet despite the size, most would agree a raw poop is the best for clearing up the glands. We never had an anal gland issue on raw, either.
        

    calliecritturs

    *My convenience* isn't even criteria in what i feed my dogs.  (and yes, I'm the one who picks up outside)  Not giving them carcinogens in their food is a big issue for me so ProPlan and Purina aren't even on the starting list.  But then ... this is also why I don't feed kibble. 




         Wanting to firm up the poo isn't only about our convenience. Long haired dogs are going to have a problem with soft/mushy poos and getting *** stuck in the nether regions. As I mentioned, ploppy stools that smell badly and leave residue when picked up can be problematic in regards to sanitary issues. Believe me, my yard REEKED of crap whenever we fed diets that gave stools too mushy to be fully picked up. Even if I hosed down daily - the residue was still in the grass. I don't think it's an unreasonable expectation to pay big bucks for a food and have it give decent stools.
         As for your poke at Purina, I don't feed my dogs carcinogens, either. If you believe it's not a good feed, don't use it. There are those here that feed diets I thought were complete garbage and nothign but propoganda advertising, that my dogs fell apart on, but don't knock those feeds. I know there are plenty of dogs that do well on them, and just becuase mine didn't doesn't mean the food is inherently poor. I never base food selection entirely on ingredients, every time I do we get burned with sick dogs. I have also fed grain free raw for years and by the end of the third year my dogs were on it, most of them were in sorry shape. Plus *I* became ill several months ago from handling raw meat when I had what amounted to an open hangnail on my finger. So there is no one diet that is best for all dogs, some of us can't afford or don't prefer to go the raw/homecooked route, especially when we've tried it & it wasn't all it's cracked up to be. As for my dogs, they'll continue to eat and thrive on Purina Cool

    • Gold Top Dog

    Science Diet Sensitive Stomach is usually good for dogs with digestive issues. 

     

    http://www.petco.com/product/8669/Hill-s-Science-Diet-Canine-Sensitive-Stomach.aspx#details

    • Gold Top Dog

    jenns

    What would be considered a bland diet?

     

    A single carb and a single protein, something that is not in the current food giving the dog problems.  For example, Coke was eating Canidae ALS and got bad diarrhea for 2 weeks.  Instead of doing a slow switch or an instant switch, he ate plain white rice and boiled ground beef for three days and then THAT was mixed into his new food to switch over.  The ingredient in the ALS causing diarrhea was turkey, hence why he ate beef in his elim diet.  The ingredient in his new food is lamb.  I think the diet our vet gave us was 2/3 white rice to 1/3 ground beef or chicken.

    • Gold Top Dog

    HoundMusic

    calliecritturs

    I honestly don't understand ... why is the size of the poop and the smell even an issue?  If you go for "small" poops you automatically increase geometrically the incidence of anal gland issues **particularly** in a small dog.  Now a well formed bowel movement is an indication of a healthy dog ... and well-formed fecal matter also makes sure the anal glands are being expressed.


         Also, size of poo does not so much correlate to anal gland issues as it does with the firmness of stools as they pass. A firm poop will naturally express the anal glands, small or large. I fed all raw for 3yrs - poops were tiny and firm yet despite the size, most would agree a raw poop is the best for clearing up the glands. We never had an anal gland issue on raw, either.
        

    I agree with both of you.  Wink

    My little dog's anal gland issues noticeably worsened after switching him from the Science Diet he previously ate to "better" brands that produced smaller poops (and I have tried quite a few, so it was not just one particular brand that he had a problem with).  So I think Callie has a point.

    OTHO, I absolutely agree that firmness is important, and I have found that he does just fine when he eats pre-made raw.

    I don't know whether any of this is relevant to the OP's dogs, however.  But I think the advice regarding a bland diet (and the pumpkin and yogurt) is excellent, and that is what I would try.  I hope Zack is back to normal soon.

    • Bronze

    Hound Music, you make some very good points.

    Many posters on this and other dog message boards are asking for help/advice because their dogs have diarrhea or soft stools.  Many of them can't understand why this is happening even though they've tried only the "best" foods (like Innova, Wellness, Canidae, etc.).  They've followed the advice they've been given on these boards to the letter, and yet their dogs still have the problem.

    I hate to see these dogs - and their owners - going through this.

    I think it's great that many (perhaps most) people can feed their dogs "premium" foods with great results.  It feels good to feed our dogs food that has human grade, "natural" ingredients.  It seems to make sense that dogs would prefer (this I don't dispute Wink) and thrive on primarily meat.  It goes without saying that we all want to feed our dogs nutritionally sound food.

    But nutritionally sound food does not have to necessarily be the most palatable-sounding.  In other words, it doesn't necessarily have to sound good to us!  When you break it down, all food is made up of chemicals.  The old, established pet food companies like Purina have refined the nutrition to the chemical level.  They process the raw ingredients (which, of course, will also be the most economical) to extract the maximum nutrition.

    For example, when we see corn as the main ingredient, we are repulsed by that because everyone knows, for example, that a steak has more protein than an ear (or many ears) of corn!  Also, given the dog's short digestive system, corn would be very difficult to digest at all, let alone extract nutrients from.  But here's the thing - the corn used in these foods has been processed to extract the maximum nutritional value from it.  Processed efficiently, combined with other ingredients, corn can provide protein in sufficient amounts.  At the chemical (molecular) level, it is every bit as nutritious as premium food.

    Another thing: dogs are not true carnivores!  Have you ever wondered why the first thing wild canines go for when they bring down their prey is the intestines?   Here's why -  because it is the easiest (most efficient) way for them to get the non-meat nutrients they need.  Most prey animals are herbivores, and the semi-digested food in their intestines is absolutely essential to canines (nutritionally speaking).  The grains and grasses contained in the herbivores' digestive system provide the wild canine with necessary nutrition that would be very difficult for it to acquire itself.  Dog's teeth are not made to chew like an herbivore's.  Not to mention, the canine's digestive system is not equipped to break down the grains and grasses like the herbivore's.  In other words, the "food" that the canine eats is processed!  By nature!

    Anyway, I really don't care WHAT people feed their dogs as long as it's nutritious and not harmful.  I, too, would prefer to feed Monty one of the premium foods because, frankly, it appeals more to me!  It would make me feel good.  Unfortunately, Monty can only eat a prescription diet, so I can't.  And, yes, the food he eats is much more expensive than the premium foods.

    What I do care about is people whose dogs have digestive problems or loving dog owners who simply can't afford to feed the premium foods being given what I feel is inaccurate or incomplete information.  All with the best intentions, I know!  But it comes down to this: some dogs do well on premium foods and some don't.  Some dogs do well on grocery store food and some don't.  Empirical evidence is useful - for example, shinier coat, more energy, etc., but so is long-term data, for example, the kind that the big pet food companies have acquired over decades.