Undesired Ingredients [Allergies & Intollerence]

Pomeranian <3

Hopefully this thread can help guests and members to understand certain food reactions with their dogs better. :o)

If that is the point of this thread than you may want to change the title since it and the OP are very misleading.

Gizmo83036

Pomeranian <3

Hopefully this thread can help guests and members to understand certain food reactions with their dogs better. :o)

 

If that is the point of this thread than you may want to change the title since it and the OP are very misleading.

Thanks for voicing your concern about the thread. I altered the title a little bit. There is a disclaim in the OP that reads:

The intention of this thread is to give guests & members a quick glance at what our dog community doesn't serve and why. Providing and sharing information such as this can help people to shorten the processes of food trial & error with helpful suggestions. Thank you for participating!

That is the intention of the thread. This will spark a lot of cool conversations about why people don't serve certain foods which can lead to conversations about why allergies happen, etc.

(If any of the members have concerns/suggestions about something I post/create, always feel free to PM me, I'm very open to new ideas)

I'm having a hard time understanding what everyone is having an issue with.  Several members have said they don't feed chicken to their dogs.  Not a single person has said that NOBODY should feed chicken.  I do believe that anyone really searching for information will read the entire thread and each post in it, and not just scan through a few then jump to the conclusion that anything listed here should not be fed to thier dog.  I'm rather enjoying this thread and haven't found anything misleading.  But then again, I've read the entire thing. 

huskymom

I do believe that anyone really searching for information will read the entire thread and each post in it, and not just scan through a few then jump to the conclusion that anything listed here should not be fed to thier dog.

I agree.  I personally wouldn't put any kind of note stating that this is an educational thread or imply that it might benefit anyone other than the OP.

I see it all the time on message boards -- Person #1 posts that their dog is having allergy symptoms and asks for advice.  And Person #2 (who likely doesn't have a good understanding of allergies in dogs) responds with a blanket statement that "My dog is extremely allergic to [insert food of your choice here], so you definitely should avoid it."  When in fact that particular food may not have a thing in the world to do with #1's dog's allergies.  It drives me crazy.

While we do know what some very common food allergens are, certainly not all of them will affect every allergic dog, and some dogs will be allergic to a fairly unusual ingredient or two and none of the common allergens.  So IMO generalizations don't do any good at all.

huskymom

I'm having a hard time understanding what everyone is having an issue with.  Several members have said they don't feed chicken to their dogs.  Not a single person has said that NOBODY should feed chicken.  I do believe that anyone really searching for information will read the entire thread and each post in it, and not just scan through a few then jump to the conclusion that anything listed here should not be fed to thier dog.  I'm rather enjoying this thread and haven't found anything misleading.  But then again, I've read the entire thing. 

Thank you Candace for your wonderful comment/post.

If you do not understand a thread you can always PM the OP; you do not have to skim read a thread then jump to a conclusion. We are trying to inform the general public; not interigate members.

This thread can be extremely resourceful for those in need of this information and for those who READ it in full. By having members of the forum list common food allergies & intollerence it can help guests/members who are struggling with diet issues to go "oh hey I never thought of that ingredient... I'll try to take out that." Like I said I wish I had this type of direct resource when I was struggling with my own dog's diet issues.

This is an educational/survey thread. I appreciate those who have participated accordingly; hopefully it can bring awareness to others. (i.e. when I first started out I just picked the bag of food that looked good... and I guarentee other people still to this day do that as well. I used to be so confused as to why my dog was throwing up or having extreme loose stool. Learning that your dog may have food allergies or intolerence to some ingredients teaches people to READ LABELS don't buy the bag of food because it looked pretty or you heard it was good). educate, educate, educate. This is why we are all here; to help others by sharing our own personal experiences.

Everyone's dog is different; every dog has different needs; every dog has different diets. This thread is EXAMPLES and RESOURCES.

Myra

I personally wouldn't put any kind of note stating that this is an educational thread or imply that it might benefit anyone other than the OP.

I see it all the time on message boards -- Person #1 posts that their dog is having allergy symptoms and asks for advice.  And Person #2 (who likely doesn't have a good understanding of allergies in dogs) responds with a blanket statement that "My dog is extremely allergic to [insert food of your choice here], so you definitely should avoid it."  When in fact that particular food may not have a thing in the world to do with #1's dog's allergies.  It drives me crazy.

Learning from other's personal experiences here is the ONLY way we learn on this forum.  We don't have a Nutrition specialist that answers all of these questions with pure fact.  You have to pick and choose in any thread, but they are all IMO educational.  Maybe I'm selfish, I come here mostly to benifit myself but I don't start a thread every time a new thought crosses my mind.  So if I can only benifit from my own posts then perhaps I'm wasting my time?   I don't think so.  This thread has already caused me to go looking for more info on Allergies.

And I'm sorry, but what does your analogy have to do with this thread?  As far as I can see, nobody has said anything remotely close to ''You should definitely avoid...''  At most someone might think to themselves,''Hmm.... so in so's dog is allergic to chicken proteins, I never knew that was possible, I wonder if my dog might be the same?''  How is that harmful? 

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By-products (personal choice)
Meat or any other ingredients that are not human-grade (such as rendered meats, personal choice)
Un-named meats/proteins, fats, etc (for the obvious reasons)
Wheat and wheat gluten (due to recall)
Multiple combined meat protein sources (intolerance for one my dogs; although since adding yogurt/acidophilus, he is showing marked improvement)
Garlic (intolerance for one of my dogs)
Corn (not that it is too terrible, just not my choice is all)
Sugar, or any additive, that is used to enhance palatability with the purpose of masking food that is empty of nutrition (...although I feed myself like this all the time! LOL)
Any food that has a ton of ingredients (although this is changing)
Too many herbs or supplements (would rather add them, if and as needed)

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Prefer natural sources over synthetic (as one example: would rather use a natural source of joint support - feed animal cartilage for glucosamine/chondroitin)

It's nice to have organic ingredients but due to costs it's not a must

huskymom

As far as I can see, nobody has said anything remotely close to ''You should definitely avoid...'' 

Anyway, for my dog I avoid

wheat

gluten

animal fat

meat and bone meal

animal digest

soy

menadione

Pomeranian <3

CC, I have a question for you since you seem to know a lot about nutrition (and others if they know the answer):

FLAXSEED is also a common listed ingredient to avoid. Current Kayla does not have a negative reaction to this, but what I have noticed is some dogs DEVELOPE an intolerence to it OVER TIME. Is that true/common/possibly could happen?

Yes, I do believe that what you read is true, but then again it may not necessarily be the Flaxseed itself but simply high fiber diets in general.  I subscribe to the plan of low carb and low fiber diets are best for dogs.  Grain free diets are faced with a dilemma and that was how to firm stools and slow down the travel to prevent diarrhea.  The best way to firm stools is the more natural way for dogs which is high concentrations of meat.  With a properly structured diet, the dogs body is perfectly capable of proper stool formation.  Grain free diets can avoid grain but they can't avoid the fiber unfortunately, so another source of fiber other than grain needed to be utilized and that is the flaxseed (substituting one fiber for another).  Flaxseed is plant-based fiber.  Again, the plan I subscribe to would indicate plant matter is best avoided including plant-based fiber, and high fiber diets are the direct connect to allergies in dogs witnessed today.  I had mentioned prior plant-based oils are beneficial and need not be deemed unacceptable.  Certain plant oils are excellent sources of Omega 6's and 3's but the best would be the natural more expensive oils, organic.  100% natural pure organic sunflower oil, safflower oil, and flaxseed oil would be the best choices in those regards.

This thread can be extremely resourceful for those in need of this information and for those who READ it in full. By having members of the forum list common food allergies & intollerence it can help guests/members who are struggling with diet issues to go "oh hey I never thought of that ingredient... I'll try to take out that." Like I said I wish I had this type of direct resource when I was struggling with my own dog's diet issues.

People often make assumptions, and they begin to manipulate their dogs' diets (or training regimens, or exercise routines, etc.) based on partial or even erroneous, information.  In my view, if you feel your dog may have a food allergy, it's probably easier to have the dog allergy tested than to diddle around changing one ingredient or another until you haphazardly find the one that is upsetting the dog (and, what if there's more than one item that is a problem?).  Since inhalant allergies are far more common in dogs than food allergies, and since it is difficult to determine, without a strict elimination diet, what the food allergy might be, testing makes the most sense, despite the expense, which is what most people are trying to avoid by diddling around.  Save the dog some angst and see the vet, is my advice.  Then, you know for sure, and can take immediate steps to prevent the allergic reaction.

If you know much about wild canines, you understand that the diet is not just made up of meat, it also includes berries, and other things that are non-meat items.  But, dogs don't eat a whole lot of CEREAL, so it would seem logical to use foods that contain quality protein sources, and maybe some other things that a canine just might forage for on its own, but not a lot of fillers that humans produce in factories to reduce the cost of the dog food on the next supermarket shelf from their competitors.  There is a wonderful site, called The Dog Food Project, that is written by a former idog member, which is worth a look see. 

The fact that one dog is allergic to a particular protein source does not mean that it is inappropriate for other dogs.  Simple, right?  So, what's the big deal?   I'd be more worried about the quality of the protein sources that I can feed my dogs, than worrying about the one I no longer feed, because what is inappropriate for your dog might be just fine for mine, and vice versa.  This is a non-argument, and a completely individual matter.

the plan I subscribe to would indicate plant matter is best avoided 

Isn't rice still grown on plants?

Flaxseed is a popular ingredient because it's one of the richest sources of stable OFAs.  Whole seed is used both because it is more stable in that form, and because the seed also includes beneficial lignons.  Lignons are not necessarily a natural major part of a dog's diet, but dogs do not live in a natural state any longer.  Like us they are exposed to toxins, pollution, and hormone-treated meat.

Lignons bind with estrogen receptors, blocking harmful hormones.  They are antioxidant precursors.  There also seems to be some evidence that foods high in lignons help reduce cholesterol - an aging factor in dogs.  Flaxseed contains 100 to 200 times the amount of lignons of any other natural source.

However, there are some dogs who cannot tolerate flax.  And, although flax is high in ALA, a precursor to the vital OFA-3s DHA and EFA - many dogs find it difficult to process ALA.  ALA, incidentally, is the form of OFA that is in all plant-sourced oils, whether organic or not, so those same dogs would still get the most benefit from OFA-balanced animal-sourced fats.

Soluble fiber is a prebiotic.  That is, it creates conditions in the gut which foster the growth of healthy organisms, which crowd out the bad ones.  In today's world of rampant e-coli and salmonella from confinement raised animals, and fungi contaminating grains (yes, even rice), I think this is a very good idea.  If my dog ate nothing but homegrown meat, butchered right under my eyes, I'd say there was no need for such a thing.  Otherwise, it gives my dog an extra layer of protection against the ills of modern urban life.

I really am not sure what this thread is about (mostly it seems to be about the OP's intentions in posting it?).  But, my philosophy now reflects 14 years of being responsible for the care of my own dogs and dozens of rescues over the years.  And what I've learned can be simply summed up as, "Never say, 'Never!'"   

Obviously I won't feed my dogs poison - but otherwise I listen to the needs of the individual dog, not my own foibles.  I thought I'd never serve my dog a bone, and then a dog named Bubo changed my mind on that.  I thought I'd never feed grain again after going raw, but then I moved to a farm 10 times the size of the old one and the dogs dropped condition like workcamp victims, and I realized the dog stomach had physical limits that could only be overcome sometimes, with carbs.  I thought I'd never feed corn based foods, or ones with that evil BHA, but then Cord came into my life, who does best on Bil-Jac.  I thought I'd never cook for my dogs, when I never cooked for us, and then I came very close to feeding Ben recalled beaver canned food, and I've never bought a can since.  Not to say I wouldn't - I buy EP cans for our cat.



 

brookcove

Isn't rice still grown on plants?

I guess so, but considering what's out there looking at a lot of other diets, I consider that a plus!  Just look at the cornucopia of plant matter and veggies and fruits found in many diets today.  A plethora of just about everything from apples to yucca.  I understand though, and outright despise of ones market approach will often cloud ones judgment. 

 I thought I'd never feed grain again after going raw, but then I moved to a farm 10 times the size of the old one and the dogs dropped condition like workcamp victims, and I realized the dog stomach had physical limits that could only be overcome sometimes, with carbs. 

If it was only that simple.  Unfortunately, the nutritional needs of our companion carnivores are much, much more complex that of the humans.  It's easy to think of the human athlete pumping up with carbs before the big race for some sustainable energy, but that is for humans and does not work the same way for dogs.  We often make mistakes when we start to think we can feed them just like ourselves.  I can't take credit for this scenario for it comes from a poster off another list.  Your are going to burn in a wood stove and looking for some sustainable heat.  Throw some newspaper in there and you get that quick blast of heat and energy, but it burns off very fast....that is your carbs.  Cardboard will burn a tad bit longer, more sustainable.  You want to achieve a some heat, you need to burn some hardwood, and that is your fat.  Dogs sustainable energy is provided through FAT METABOLISM, not carbs Becca.  You want your dogs tear up the farm for hours on end and not come off gimpy and limp like 'work camp victims' after just a few 600 yards sprints, try some good old fashioned Pork Fat Lard instead of the veggie mush...you'd be amazed out the results! 

CC

brookcove

Soluble fiber is a prebiotic.  That is, it creates conditions in the gut which foster the growth of healthy organisms, which crowd out the bad ones.  

Crowds out, surrounds, encapsulates, and impedes the transfer a valuable nutrients entering the bloodstream, and then we wonder why are dogs become allergy prone.

 CC