New puppy in conformation..opinions and help please!

    • Gold Top Dog

    New puppy in conformation..opinions and help please!

    Ok..so while ive done obedience work for a while.im still fairly new at the conformation world.  I showed diesel (my akita) very lightly last year..(like 6-7 shows) and he was 3 years old, so Tessa will be my first PUPPy to take into the ring.  We dont have anywhere local that has handling classes.  Nowhere.  The closest place is 2 hours away, and i dont have time in my schedule to drive 4 hours a night every week for a class.  She gaits for me nicely, allows me to handstack her, stays, allows people to go over her, etc.  The only thing is that she wont freestack!  We are working on it..and about half the time now she'll line up her front feet..and one back foot will be close to position..but we're nowhere near a decent freestack for the ring..  So heres my question.  I planned on entering her in a UKC show in February.  Its 4 shows in one weekend and figured It'd be great practice..but is it bad to take a dog into the ring if its not fully "ready" in training?  I had been just thinking it'll be great for her to get out there, even if she wont freestack..no big deal..  But then i thought of it in an obedience perspective..and it'd be stupid to take a dog into the obedience ring if she couldnt do all the obstacles!  I know theres several people on here that do conformation..so what are your opinions? 

    Also, what are some tips/hints on training the freestack?  What ive been doing with her (and did with my akita) is just practice on self stacking and using the command "stacK" when i get her placed like i want her..and then when i go to freestack her just say "stack" and try to walk her into a somewhat level stand..but shes just not catching on that way like i thought she would.

     Thanks for any help!

    • Gold Top Dog
    As for taking a dog in the ring that isn't "fully ready", no I don't think it's a bad thing. I have done it in obedience, and I have seen many people do it in conformation. I view the ring as fun, and I treat it as a learning experience for me and the dog more than as a competition. I can't help you with the freestacking, because I was lucky in that the only dogs I handled in conformation ( a whopping 3) were naturals at freestacking.
    • Gold Top Dog

    A judge is not going to be overly critical on the training of a puppy.  While they don't want to go over a psycho, they SHOULD understand and tolerate (to a degree) puppy wigglies.  Many judges try and teach the puppy to both be serious, but keep it light hearted so the dog can learn that showing is fun.

    As for stacking and commands, there are basically four:
    Stand
    Step
    Back
    Stay

    And there are various sub commands for Step and back :-P

    Tell your dog to stand when you are setting her up, and reward her for staying.  For now, only worry about her front.  Don't worry so much about the rear.  The rear will come.

    When you're freestacking her, tell her to "stack" as you've been doing, and look at her front feet.  Only reward her when she is standing square in front.  If one foot is too far forward, lightly touch the toes of that foot with your shoe.  Do not squash her feet, though sometimes a little pressure is needed to get the dog to move them.  Tell her "back".  Generally the dog will fix its rear as well as its front.

    If the dog moving backwards would cause her to post, instead gently guide her forward with the use of her lead and tell her "step".  Basically you're getting the dog to move one step up, so saying "step" or "step up" will teach her to move a single foot forward into position.

    I'll try and get some video of my friend Candee doing this with her Dobermans, as they have great stand, step, back, and stay commands :-)  She can even point to a rear foot and say "back foot" and her dogs will fix their rear ends xD


     

    • Gold Top Dog

    Most of the really good folks I know use a  muscle memory approach to stacking.  You can use a table to start (especially good with a puppy) because the table give them a natural limit to the amount of space.  Get a buddy or a mirror.  Place some very thin  but somewhat durable (like poster board or a peice of sheet).  Hand stack your puppy into the best possible position, front then back if you have too.  Draw a mark for the placement of each leg.  You now have a template to help with your stacking practice.  Lay the template out on the floor. 

    Walk the dog on to it.  Have the collar  high on the neck and lifted somewhate but not tight all the way around. 

    Place your hand through the collar in a comfortable manner (you will be switching hands).  I was taught to set outside first. 

    Holding the collar up, run your free hand down the neck and along the shoulder.  Place the front leg on the mark.  To do so, run your hand along the outside of the leg and stablize the joints so you move a "stiff" leg. You hold at the elbow Run your hand back up the dog's leg, then along the side of the dog.  Repeat the same leg moving proceedure holding at the stifle. 

    Move your hand back up the dog and long the dog's body to the neck.  When you reach the collor switch hands, and repeat on the near side.  When the dog is stacked, slowly stand more upright.  Using the hand not in the collar, get bait in front of the nose, use your stack command. 

    Treat and walk out.  Repeat four or five times.  Do something else, like examine teeth, gait, develop some play behaviors, then walk back to the template and repeat. 

    Start at slow motion, then slowly work to increase your speed.  As you get faster and the puppy moves more readily you can start thinking "happy legs" or tuna cans.   Working on these elevated "pieces" helps get stacks rock solid (if you have a strong temperment to begin with).  My terv would have never done well on happy legs.

    http://www.happylegs.com/

     These strategies help establish a motor memory for a free stack.  The dog has been in that position so frequently that it has become a default.  By labeling the positioned stack with whatever word (I use park from my saddleseat days), you are setting up the command that can be used for a free stack in the ring.   The walking onto the template will help with this walking into a stack as well.

     As to goofy puppies in UKC, not a big deal.  Animation with someone else holding may be more important if the judge is into expression.

    Disclaimer.  The material described above I have learned from personal experience and handling seminars. 

    • Gold Top Dog

    I am also new to showing, and with my Aussie I have been capturing her natural stack by rewarding her whenever i see her standing squarely. It it working, and she now is setting up her front nicely.

    As for the hand stack, I practice in front of a mirror so I can she what she looks like. That's been really helpful. I also have borrowed one of my Aussie's breeder's finished dogs to take to handling classes so I can learn with a dog that knows his way around the ring.