Raw vs Kibble

Pre-made raw kibble? Kibble cannot be raw. The difference in raw and kibble is processing. It's like the difference in healthy microwave meals and fresh food, for humans. Raw is easier to process, and closer to what their bodies were designed to do.

The difference in pre-made, frozen raw, and home prepared raw is price and knowing that it's already balanced. A lot of folks (especially starting out) like to know that the food is balanced. I've done home prepared diets for long enough that I don't worry about it, any more. 

What I meant by raw kibble is what I read on the EVO red meat packaging. That's why I'm curious.  

EVO is not raw, it's kibble. It's cooked. I don't know what the package says (never used it), but nothing that looks like dry dog food is raw. 

 Personally I feel the difference between premade raw and home prepared raw, is that you have to trust someone else if you get the premade stuff.  For me the choice was either homecook or raw.  I just didn't want my dogs to be another statistic. 

Its alot more research if you choose to do home prepared.  But its not really hard once you get the hang of it.  

The benefits of Raw?  I'll see if I can hit a couple.  First and formost, I don't have to clean up poop anymore.  Well except on walks, and thats just because... well you gotta.  But in their dog run... after a day or so, it crumbles and disappears.  Gone.  No smell, no mess.  NOthing.  Now maybe this seems like a secondary thing, but no poop to me means not only nothing to clean up, but that my dogs are getting as much as possible out of their food.  There just isn't any waste.

Next, I can adjust anything I want with a raw diet.  (you could do this with homecooked as well).  If my dogs look a little dull, I can add some sardines or salmon, or even a fish oil capsule for a few days.  Although I prefer to use the real thing.  If calcium is off, I can adjust that.

My dogs both love it.  Every little bit of it.  They gnaw on chicken legs, slurp up raw beef liver, gobble down sardines.  They make horrific messes with some of it, like pork hocks, so those things get fed in crates.  

Coats are glossy and thick(a really good thing for huskies).  Teeth are sparkly clean.  We don't get any eye boogers unless its really windy. 

Nobodies itchy.  Crusher has food allergies, and lately I'm suspecting cat allergies... but even the cat allergies don't bug him much.  (We're trying to get rid of the cat, but if he finds a spot where the cat has chosen to lay down for a bit he will sniff at it persistantly, and his eyes get puffy.  but that goes away rather quickly.) Crusher doesn't "do" wheat and corn.  With raw feeding, well he doesn't get it.  Not by accident, or any other way.

 My latest thing.  Well I love to see them try new things.  Its soooo funny to watch them roll an egg around in thier bowl and look up quizzically at me.  They KNOW its food.  Its in their bowls.  But HOW do you get to it?  I had to pick them up and drop them to crack them.  Neither one will eat much shell yet, maybe I should crush them.  Dunno.  That's the other thing.  I get to learn new things everyday.  I never stop researching. 

But by far the biggest thing is that I KNOW EXACTLY  what my dogs are eating.  There is no relying on anyone else to process their food properly.  I don't have to worry about whether or not things were handled in clean conditions, at the right temperature.  My next step is to raise the meat myself.  But that won't be for a few years yet.  

Learn something new everyday! Lol. With the meat, is it just steaks and hamburger and such you get the meat dept or the butchers?

Are there any websites I can go to research this? 

My problem with the EVO is her coat is looking dull and she gets really bad eye boogers (wet ones not dry). She's also developing allergies so I'm looking for a holistic meal that I know what goes in and how much. I've read rave reviews for the raw diet and I'm thinking about trying it.  

oranges81

My problem with the EVO is her coat is looking dull and she gets really bad eye boogers (wet ones not dry).  

oranges81

Maze get EVO Red meat kibble from the pet store and she's never been healthier or shinier.

She's shinier and healthier then she was when I was feeding her Pedigree. But her coat could be shinier, it looks like it's lacking in luster.
Sorry bout the mixup! I have a habit of confusing people and myself a lot.. *blushes*

While I'm thinking about it.. Is there anything I can add to her kibbles to make up for what ever is lacking? I've been reading up on a pure raw diet and I don't think it's for me..  

 Check out Raw Dog Ranch as a start.  Its a good starting off point.  After that there's a Boxer site that has some great FAQ's. 

Yes all of the meat I get is from the grocery store.  Well, no that's not right.  I do get some from my sister and her husband, who hunt.  I get scraps.  But yes, everything is human grade. 

I don't do alot of steaks, and only add in hamburger when my dogs are high in calcium.  That is, their poop fairly explodes when it hits the ground.  Into powder though, not runny.  Most raw fed dog poop turns chalky and crumbles after a day or so, but when it comes out that way, it means too much calcium.  Thats something i learned on here.

I buy alot of chicken backs and necks, which are cheap.  Pork hocks, pork necks, ribs(if I can get a good deal), sardines(not raw, but the oil is good for coats, you could add that if you want to kibble if you aren't comfortable with going raw btw)  Salmon when its on sale, again not raw, but I tend to overlook it for the benefits as well as the bones involved.

We also buy chicken legs with back attached when we need more protein.  They replace the backs and necks as the mainstay.  And I have only recently started giving them raw eggs(fun stuff).  

The more variety the better.  If you can get whole animals, that is from what I've heard, the best way to feed raw.  Just toss the whole animal and take it away after a bit and put it back in the fridge for the next day.  

But do check out Raw Dog Ranch.  Its a good place to start. 

Thanks for the links! I'll check them out 

oranges81

My problem with the EVO is her coat is looking dull and she gets really bad eye boogers (wet ones not dry). She's also developing allergies so I'm looking for a holistic meal that I know what goes in and how much. I've read rave reviews for the raw diet and I'm thinking about trying it.  

I am starting to think that, although I love the grain frees to death, they do most of them share the "problem" that they are lacking in omega-3s, possibly.  Certainly I have some of the same problems with my crew, until I add lots of fish oil to their diet, plus upping their canned fish.  Most border Collies are sensitive to lack of omega-3s - they don't need huge amounts, but if they drop below acceptable levels you'll hear about it!

Anyway, try that - fish body oil, not cod liver oil. 

The advantage of fresh raw meat -

• Chewing, ripping, tearing is satisfying on many levels to a dog. 
  
• It's a cleaner way to eat (from the point of view of the dog's mouth), and chewy meat actually cleans their teeth - even boneless meat has some teeth cleaning action, though not as much as bones.  Best of all for teeth cleaning is harder bones with some tendons, some meat, and some bone that can be eaten. 
  
• Eating raw meat stimulates different stomach flora - the more variety in a dog's stomach, the better -
  
• Dogs are scavengers and healthy dogs should be encouraged to eat as wide a variety of healthy and reasonably balanced foods as possible for optimal health.
• Bones (which can only be fed fresh in the raw state, unless you have the means to grind them!), offer unique nutritional benefits to dogs, I'm convinced, that we just haven't figured out all the ins and outs of yet.  Dogs have been eating them for way too long, for there to be no good reason, or for raw bones to be easily and entirely replaced by meat meal, some corn or potatoes, and some chelated vitamins and minerals.
  

The meaty bones I use come from a variety of sources.  I get meat from my own farm and that of my friends and neighbors, plus the farmers' markets.  I watch the papers for people getting rid of livestock and see whether they willl deliver to a butcher near them.  That's the preferable source.  There's a meat market in town.  That's second best - I can get lots of funky and cool cuts of meat there and usually don't need much else. 

Sometimes Wally World has deals I just can't pass up though - huge slabs of beef ribs that are great fun for the dogs, giant packages of pork neckbones (the butchers at Wally World near us don't murder them like most grocery store butchers do - they make nice square pieces of them).

The grocery is my least favorite place to get meat.  I really don't get meat there anymore, in fact.  If you want to find out how to get a start on breaking free of the grocery store, check this out - http://eatwild.com

If your dog is developing allergies, however, proceed with caution.  Most home prepared diets are based on variety of some kind - either rotation of the fresh ingredients or rotation of commercial foods or both.  You won't be able to figure out allergies if you are switching up foods quickly (ie, rotating faster than two months).  And you could make your dog much worse. 

If her symptoms are moderate to severe, discuss a plan with your vet before proceeding - he or she might suggest testing or a true elmination diet.  If she has mild symptoms, or you already have a strong idea of what is causing the problem, you might want to try an informal elimination diet yourself before going on with a full change in feeding approach.  You pick a novel protein and a novel carb and stick to that and nothing else for two months - Natural Balance has three different formulas to choose from (novel means your dog has never had it  before - so potato would be out because of the EVO, but sweet potato might be ok).  If she's doing well at the end of that time, that's where your raw/home prepared comes in.  You start adding one ingredient at a time, wait something like two weeks (I forget how long it is) for a reaction, then go on to another ingredient.

Good luck!
 

 Do you have any idea if there is a Canadian version of that website Brookcove?  Since meat can't be shipped over the border, I can't use that one, nor can I carry it back with me even if I shipped it to my niece in MN. 

Ahhh okay, she's shinier than she's ever been, but her coat is still dull. Now I get it! Fish oil is the absolute best supplement for skin and coat IMO. I would make sure to use a regular fish oil rather then cod liver oil, since the liver is where toxins are processed. I like Grizzly Salmon Oil because it's inexpensive, easy to find and has a pump dispenser so it's really convenient.

http://www.grizzlypetproducts.com/