Would like to start 7mnth old puppy on raw...what's best??

Unless you know how to balance the calcium to less than 1.4% in the diet, do not feed a puppy (ESPECIALLY a large breed puppy) non-premade raw.  

 Premade raw is fine since the nutrient values are known (and posted on NV's site, for example), but do NOT attempt to make it yourself unless you consult a nutritionist.  An imbalance of calcium:phosphorus can cause detrimental growth deformities in large breed puppies, and the lack or absence of any nutrient during growth can cause future problems as well.
 

You mean to tell me that I can't even give him chicken wings to chew on once or twice a week?

I'm having a major problem with this guy needing to CHEW, so far the only thing I've been able to give him that lasts for more then a few minutes is a rawhide bone, which I've NEVER been a fan of, but he has a strong desire to chomp for a few hours spread throughout the day.

Yes, he gets plenty of activity, physical and mental.

Interesting.  I always thought raw (or half raw) was supposed to be okay for puppies?  I can see how it could negatively impact their growth though since you wouldn't really know the exact calcium ratio and that could cause rapid growth.  I'm interested if the occasional chicken wing is okay though to?  My puppy is ten months old and we have given her the occasional raw chicken wing, which she goes nuts over.

IMO, it's perfectly fine to give puppies raw. Butter (pit/hound) was raised primarily on raw from 5 weeks of age- he's a glossy, healthy, muscular, active one-year-old now. Chief (Pyrenees) is 6 months old and is also primarily getting raw- he's growing normally and is doing great. Punchy (APBT)is 4 months old and has been getting raw since I found him at 10 weeks. He also is doing great.

Personally, I don't think it's necessary to go crazy making sure every single nutritional value is exactly perfect in a dog's diet. I don't. Honestly, I don't even measure their food when I feed them raw. I don't go that far out of my way to "balance" it. They either get whole prey animals, which is a nutritianlly complete meal, or I give them different parts of an animal over a period of time which adds up to proper nutrition. I have no idea what calcium/phosphorus ratios my dogs are getting. I have no clue how many kcals they consume in a day. And yet, all of my dogs are growing normally, are healthy weights, are shiny and pretty and active. 

My dogs eat prey-model raw, table scraps, and kibble maybe twice a week if I don't happen to have anything raw to offer. I supplement with Satin Balls and fish oil. They're all doing great.

It's just my opinion and I'm sure alot of people will disagree with me, but I just don't think it's necessary to over-analyze and be super anal about our dog's diets. They're not going to become malnourished and explode if their exact nutritional requirements aren't met at every single solitary meal.

I've raised one puppy on primarily raw and am in the process of raising two more. All of them  are medium-large breed dogs. If you want to start introducing him to raw, I'd reccomend starting with chicken wings or backs- they both have good meat to bone ratios, are reasonably small, and even my really picky chihuahua who doesn't like anything loves chicken wings, so they seem to be pretty appealing.

When I started my puppies, I used chicken wings, backs, and legs. Rabbits are also really good if you can get them. I also gave them chopped up livers, gizzards, and hearts.  Most of them took to it right away and really, really loved it. 

I agree with ratsicles. The healthiest way to raise a puppy is on raw. Besides, this dog is a) at 50 pounds, barely qualifies as a large breed; and over the six month age- after age six months they are less sensitive to screw-ups on owner's part in calcium intake. Just do some research first, you can't just toss the dog chicken backs and wings like some folks think...

 I'm a little more anal than Ratsicles, since I do measure with a scale, but for the most part I just average it out over a week or so.  I'm not about to start slicing off a bit of chicken thigh because I'm 2 ounces over or something.  I also keep a close eye on my dogs.  And stools.  LOL.  If one is looking thin, I add, thick,  I take away.   And if stools are exploding before they hit the ground, I add more meat, less bone.  Exact science I know. 

If one is looking thin, I add, thick,  I take away.   And if stools are exploding before they hit the ground, I add more meat, less bone.  Exact science I know.

That's basically what I do. I did measure food back a couple of years ago when I very first started feeding my dogs raw, but over time I got a feel for how much they needed without having to measure it. When I try a new dog on raw, I just grab an amount that "looks good" and adjust it from there.  

Ratsicles

If one is looking thin, I add, thick,  I take away.   And if stools are exploding before they hit the ground, I add more meat, less bone.  Exact science I know.

That's basically what I do. I did measure food back a couple of years ago when I very first started feeding my dogs raw, but over time I got a feel for how much they needed without having to measure it. When I try a new dog on raw, I just grab an amount that "looks good" and adjust it from there.  

Well to be honest, I'm getting closer to that point.  I do still measure out for the week, but for the most part, I throw it on the scale and go,"mmmmya, that looks good"  at which point I bag it up and freeze it.  If I could feed whole animals I might not worry much, but since my offal comes from a different animal typically,  I measure just to be sure of the ratios of that.  Its hard to guesstimate how much beef liver/chicken backs I should use.  Still, its not exactly 5% each day, but over a week it pretty much is. 

Ratsicles

IMO, it's perfectly fine to give puppies raw. Butter (pit/hound) was raised primarily on raw from 5 weeks of age- he's a glossy, healthy, muscular, active one-year-old now. Chief (Pyrenees) is 6 months old and is also primarily getting raw- he's growing normally and is doing great. Punchy (APBT)is 4 months old and has been getting raw since I found him at 10 weeks. He also is doing great.

Personally, I don't think it's necessary to go crazy making sure every single nutritional value is exactly perfect in a dog's diet. I don't. Honestly, I don't even measure their food when I feed them raw. I don't go that far out of my way to "balance" it. They either get whole prey animals, which is a nutritianlly complete meal, or I give them different parts of an animal over a period of time which adds up to proper nutrition. I have no idea what calcium/phosphorus ratios my dogs are getting. I have no clue how many kcals they consume in a day. And yet, all of my dogs are growing normally, are healthy weights, are shiny and pretty and active. 

My dogs eat prey-model raw, table scraps, and kibble maybe twice a week if I don't happen to have anything raw to offer. I supplement with Satin Balls and fish oil. They're all doing great.

It's just my opinion and I'm sure alot of people will disagree with me, but I just don't think it's necessary to over-analyze and be super anal about our dog's diets. They're not going to become malnourished and explode if their exact nutritional requirements aren't met at every single solitary meal.

I've raised one puppy on primarily raw and am in the process of raising two more. All of them  are medium-large breed dogs. If you want to start introducing him to raw, I'd reccomend starting with chicken wings or backs- they both have good meat to bone ratios, are reasonably small, and even my really picky chihuahua who doesn't like anything loves chicken wings, so they seem to be pretty appealing.

When I started my puppies, I used chicken wings, backs, and legs. Rabbits are also really good if you can get them. I also gave them chopped up livers, gizzards, and hearts.  Most of them took to it right away and really, really loved it. 

 

I didn't read your whole post, but my point was that a high amount of calcium and an unbalanced calcium/phosphorus ratio WILL cause growth problems in large breed puppies....it's been proven....over and over again.   While the other nutrients may not be a big deal by being "off" in value, the calcium/phosphorus issue is something that you simply cannot take lightly.
 
 So unless the OP can figure out how much calcium and phosphorus is in the food, why take the inevitable risk?

 

 I think what Ratsicles meant is that it isn't that easy to screw up on Raw feeding.  Especially if you can feed whole animals, the calcium:phosphorus is properly balanced.  There are also other signs that you're screwing up with calcium.  You'll get spots on the teeth, overly chalky stools, brittle nails... Those things show up relatively quickly.  The stools show up within a day.  In that case, you adjust.  Anything is possible with enough research.  But Research is key.  I don't know any raw feeders that raise pups to any age on kibble.  And I don't know many that feed a premade raw either.  The majority of raw feeders that I know, feed raw, not only because its better for the dog in their opinion, but because they don't want to have to trust some dog food company to know what is best for their dog.  Besides the contamination issues make the whole think worth it IMO.

consider that the studies showing calcium intake is critical during puppyhood didn't use minor fluctuations in intake- they fed more than DOUBLE or less than HALF of the recommended calcium intake EVERY SINGLE DAY EVERY SINGLE MEAL of the puppy's life. If you were feeding a home-prepared raw diet it would be rather difficult to replicate those conditions by accident, possibly difficult to do it on purpose. The only real danger I see is if you feed a pre-made raw every day that got the calcium amount wrong- lots of premade raws seem to not tell you how much calcium is in them, and many seem rather bone-heavy to me, being made primarily from chicken backs.

mudpuppy

consider that the studies showing calcium intake is critical during puppyhood didn't use minor fluctuations in intake- they fed more than DOUBLE or less than HALF of the recommended calcium intake EVERY SINGLE DAY EVERY SINGLE MEAL of the puppy's life. If you were feeding a home-prepared raw diet it would be rather difficult to replicate those conditions by accident, possibly difficult to do it on purpose. The only real danger I see is if you feed a pre-made raw every day that got the calcium amount wrong- lots of premade raws seem to not tell you how much calcium is in them, and many seem rather bone-heavy to me, being made primarily from chicken backs.

Nope. The puppies were fed a diet of 1.5% calcium....the same as a typical dry food might have.  PM me if you would like me to email you the study.  Nice try though....

(and the premade raw I was referring to was Nature's Variety....their calcium values can be viewed via their website)
 

I had that chewing problem with my girl when she was a pup. I spent so much money on toys and treats just for her to chew em up in 2 minutes. I found cow hooves adn bully sticks to be a real lasting treat!

 A large breed puppy food should have about 0.8% calcium.  So 1.5% is almost double.