Solid Gold's Latest Idiocy

Dog_ma

 ..... ANYONE, taking supplements for ANY reason, needs to do their homework and make an educated decision.  The same holds true for people who supplement dogs. 

The problem is not Solid Gold making a supplement - the problem is people who don't make educated decisions.  I'm not going to blame SG for that, anymore than I blame the vitamin companies for selling things I'm not personally hot on.  People have choices.  In the absence of proof that a supplement is harmful, I support others having the option to use it if they believe in it.
 

Yeah, but what are people supposed to base their "education" on if there has been no testing of any of these supplements? Just because one can now read lots of testimonials on the internet about various supplements doesn't mean we've somehow acquired any meaningful eductaion about them.

In another post someone mentioned their concern over all the chemicals that producers bombard poultry and other meat with to make it fatter and juicier. Uh, primarily, those chemicals would be hormone supplements. So, it's terrible and scary that our meat has elevated levels of hormones, but for some reason it's perfectly ok if food is supplemented with hormones as long as those hormones come from a "natural" source, and the producer wears a big "holistic" badge? Honestly, I DOUBT that the amount of progesterone-like hormone that is found in this supplement is going to be of any benefit or of any harm. But no one would accept "I doubt if it's harmful" if the same amount of hormone were added in a chemically pure form. In the bigger picture, whether this particular supplement is harmful or not, I think that the double standard applied to safety of "natural" supplements vs "artificial" supplements is dangerous. I doubt that very many people would accept the notion that it's ok to add some manufactured chemical to food as long as there is an "absence of proof that [it] is harmful, and support others having the option to use it fi they believe in it" particularly when if there isn't even any system in place to report any suspected adverse reactions. So why do we accept that standard if the seller slaps a label of "natural" and "holistic" on the supplement?

Great Post! In germany supplements have to abide by the same research and standards as medications (drugs). I think this should be the same in the states as well. The truth of the matter you can't say anything about these supplements because there is no good evidence that they work, or don't work for that matter. Saying that plant based hormone analogs are less harmful or not harmful during pregnancy is not based in science.

buster the show dog

 In the bigger picture, whether this particular supplement is harmful or not, I think that the double standard applied to safety of "natural" supplements vs "artificial" supplements is dangerous. I doubt that very many people would accept the notion that it's ok to add some manufactured chemical to food as long as there is an "absence of proof that [it] is harmful, and support others having the option to use it fi they believe in it" particularly when if there isn't even any system in place to report any suspected adverse reactions. So why do we accept that standard if the seller slaps a label of "natural" and "holistic" on the supplement?

 

 

I think our entire system (unregulated supplements and manufactured pharmaceuticals both) is messed up.  Personally, I treat any supplement as a form of "medicine" and treat it with respect and caution.  Natural does not mean magic, or free of problems.

But big pharma has no interest is testing supplements and natural remedies.  There isn't much money to be made there.  There isn't the same level of scientific information on supplements, and I think that is unfortunate.  But I'm not going to roll over for big business and ignore natural remedies just because they aren't making some guy in a suit $$$.

The playing field is not level, and I do support people's right to use supplements that have not been shown to be harmful.  To do otherwise is to side with market forces and not science.  I also believe, passionately, that people need to respect supplements and not treat them as harmless.  If they work, they are effectively drugs.  It drives me up the wall when people assume that natural means safe.  

I have friends who use homeopathic remedies.  As a matter of personal opinion, I think the philosophy of homeopathy is bunk.  I still support their right to use those remedies.  ... I could say more but I have a visitor ....I may be back. :)

I think you are right Dog_ma, and if you think about it, the supplement companies won't benefit from testing their products either. If the research proves they are not that great, or in fact don't work they would lose money. It's to their benefit to not test them in a way. I agree anyone can use anything they wish, but they deserve to be better informed about the risks of the products they are using and realize as you said natural or plant derived doesn't mean free of side effects or safe.

Dog_ma

I have friends who use homeopathic remedies.  As a matter of personal opinion, I think the philosophy of homeopathy is bunk.  I still support their right to use those remedies.  ...

 

 

I thought they were crazy, too, til Callie got it through my thick skull to try one. Now, I don't spend hours a week trying to keep urine stains off of Emma, her bedding, and whatever else she decides to pee on. Her daily treatment with a homeopathic remedy keeps her from "leaking" urine (for her, leaking means gushing, pouring, and general lack of control). It's great.

 

I used to feed Solid Gold. It's a great food. I always thought the company was a little weird, though. And the Dragon's Teeth treats? Contain xylitol!! 

Where do you see xylitol in Dragons teeth?I do not see that listed in the ingredients.  Someone had mentioned that all herbal products are tested in Germany---this is where the woman  noticed the danes were healthier and lived longer. She attributed it to their diet--which was more natural. That is when she got into holistic when she came back to the States.  I really don't think she is out to make a buck--I think she wanted the best for her dogs as she was a breeder.  Personally, she didn't look like she needed the money anyway,being that she went all the way to Germany to get a stud  and a fawn?(I think that's what she called it).I, myself do not trust all holistic herbs, but there does seem to be a lot of truth in some of the treatments and remedies.  Again,if you notice something isn't right,I would think a person would have the sense to quit taking it.

Concept a B has been around since dirt was young.  If I were to consider a supplement for my dogs, I'd just do the research on its effectiveness and safety, just like I would for any medication or diet regime.  It's sold in multiple supply catalogs - the first place to go to find breeders who use this would probably be through them - most of the time when a supply company stocks something oddball like this product, it's because they had multiple people highly recommend it.

Someone trained us at some point to believe that our dogs are fragile beings who will wither and die at the least little imbalance - when in fact healthy dogs hark back to their scavenger roots and are pretty hardy and tolerant.  

Sheep, now.  Sheep are born lookin' for a place to die.  

Regarding this:

producers bombard poultry and other meat with to make it fatter and juicier. Uh, primarily, those chemicals would be hormone supplements.

US poultry producers aren't allowed to use hormones. And ungulate producers (beef, lamb, goat, venison, etc) are strictly regulated.  The hormones usually used are growth hormones (anabolics), not sex hormones - they just make the young animals grow faster and eat more. 

Here's the product most beef producers use (and used in feedlot lamb operations) http://tinyurl.com/2a7phy

Hormones can't make meat tastier except indirectly, in that it only takes 11 months to grow out a steer, where it used to take two or three years (and therefore you are eating younger meat).  I still think the growth hormones are a big mistake, but they aren't the ultimate evil in the system for sure.  I'm much more freaked out by the antibiotics they overuse, creating super-salmonella, super e. colis, and super streps.

 

 

Someone had mentioned that all herbal products are tested in Germany---this is where the woman noticed the danes were healthier and lived longer. She attributed it to their diet--which was more natural.

Danes in Germany could be living longer because of a HUGE number of things...everything from the specific lineage there to the climate to veterinary care. There is no way of knowing it is diet. Just being logical here...just becase you see A and B happening at the same time does not mean one caused the other.

Im sorry, but you're a student and she has a Masters and a doctorate.I think she knows what she's talking about. She breeds Danes, she travels to Germany to get exceptional dogs to breed here and she obviously wants the best of health for her dogs.   What more is there to say?  I'm not saying you don't know what your talking about, but sometimes wisdom does come with experience--and she has been in the field a long time. Just because something is more current doesn't make it God's word.

Wow, that is increadibly rude. What exactly is your educational background, if you aren't supposed to question those who have already completed their masters/doctorate by your own logic should you be questioning her? Having any degree doesn't mean you automatically should believe something the person says. The only thing that is obvious from your post is that you feel personally insulted if someone disagrees with this person or doesn't especially like something about the food and you shouldn't be. A lot of misinformation has been spread by "experts". If you are satisfied believing what someone says without questioning or trying to further the field/research that's fine, but don't bash someone who isn't. I don't believe anything just because someone says it, I need to see proof. She doesn't produce it, years of experience doesn't make something true. Many doctors used to think bleeding people made them better, they did this for more then a hundred years and they were wrong. Many people are not too keen on the marketing that comes from solid gold including the dogfoodproject.com lady. Here is one of my favorite quotes and IMO you should take it to heart: "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists." -Eric Hoffer

No I don't think it was rude nor was it meant to be.I am mearly stating that just because you are going to school,that doesn't make you an expert.  She seems to feel the woman has no idea of what she sells to the public and only wants to make a dollar.  And who are you to say anything about my education--maybe you're too sensitive!

All I said was that the woman is highly educated and would more than likely know more than someone just starting school and a hell of a lot more than me. Let's not get personal--I did not say the girl wasn't intelligent-obviously she is if she is in vet school. But she keeps doubting the intelligence of the breeder.    Relax, will you.

I also want to state that in another thread, I was told I didn't know what I was talking about and NO ONE jumped down their throat and said they were rude to me.

 Um, maybe you should read ottoluv's post again... I'm pretty sure it was an attempt to get away from being personal.

 Anyways, I don't trust the "medical companies" one tiny bit, but that doesn't mean that the alternative is necessarily better. I guess I agree with most here, regardless of what it is, or where it comes from, research should be done so that you feel comfortable feeding it to your dog. Otherwise, wouldn't we all be feeding our dogs Science Diet? After all, that's what most "experts" say is the best.
 

maizysmom

And I still would trust her more...

 

You may find this interesting http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1370/is_n10_v24/ai_9246902. 

I agree. I'm not saying holistic is the best,but if it works for a person, than so be it.There is no need to criticize the supplement just because you feel it wasn't tested. I am willing to try anything to try and make my dal comfortable, whether it be medicinal or herbal. However I do know prednosone is hard on the kidneys and that is why I would rather not use it. And I meant no offense to the girl--I think it came across the wrong way. Ijust know from experience that when we are all young,we think we know everything and older people know nothing--- and that is so far from the truth as my daughters are finding out with their own children.