Taste of the Wild

starsenchis

iggypop

Now I've got a letter sent via snail mail from Pedigree that specifically states that they do not use any 4-D protein sources in any of their products. That is a letter worth it's weight in gold!

 

 

Did they mention 3-D?  There is a difference and just because they claim to not use 4-D doesn't mean they don't use 3-D.  I wouldn't be surprised if they did. 

I was unaware that there was a difference between 3-D and 4-D meat. Pedigree told me that they do not use any 4-D meats which includes "dead, dying, diseased and disabled." I might be able to buy that they may not use these products in their canned foods but they use meat and bone meals in most of their dry foods. How the heck to they manage not to use any 4-D meats in the meat and bone meal? Anyway, this is why I've kept the letter. It just doesn't make sense so I'm going to hold onto it for awhile.

Well, the source of my info may not be reliable, ha ha, but for what it's worth...

I recently called the Abady company to ask them if they use 4D meats in their regular canned food.  I thought it was strange that they had a line of "premium" canned foods that claimed to use "No 4D meats".  That got me thinking "Well, does that mean that their regular canned DOES use 4D?"

 So I called and asked and she gave me some story about how they never use 4D in any of their canned or dry foods, but that they do use 3D in the non-premium line and I'd be hard pressed to find a company that doesn't.  I guess the one "D" they leave out must be diseased?  That would be the worst one, wouldn't it?

 

 

My take on things is that I only want to use foods that can actually make the claim that their meat sources are "human-grade", USDA inspected, grass fed, free-range, wild-caught etc. AND back it up.  I know for a fact that any meats that come out of New Zealand and Australia are NOT 3D, 4D or anything else because those countries and the EU specifically BAN the use of any such meats in pet foods , unlike these idiots here in the US ( FDA, USDA ) who could care less what kind of ingredients go into those bags and cans.  If you're reading the label or watching /reading the advertising for a food and read info on the company and know it's background  any manufacturer who DOES use quality meats is definitely going to mention it and put some kind of "certification assurance" behind it. Companies like Purina, P&G, Mars, Hills, Iams  etc are NEVER going to make any of these claims because they CAN'T.  They can  give you lip service and "tell" you that they do all they want when you inquire, because face it... they're NOT going to tell you that they ARE using 4D, 3D or whatever meats because they'd be cutting their own throats. OF COURSE they are going to skirt the issue and "pretend" to use quality meat sources but I defy any of them to actually PROVE with documentation that they DO.  Well again... they CAN'T . I can guarantee you that never in our lifetime without heavy Government regulation and intervention, will you EVER EVER EVER see Iams, Purina, Hills or any of these  food industry giants use the terms  "free range",  grass fed, antibiotic and hormone free, non-GMO,  human grade , USDA inspected or  "from meats fit for human consumption" or any other term that relates to whole, quality , healthy foods, on their packaging or in their advertising.  They will keep up the slick advertising campaigns and let the consumer ASSUME that they are filling their foods with "healthy veggies and fruits and prime cuts of meat".  Maybe that's the reason that there is currently a humonguous class action lawsuit against all of the major manufacturers for " grossly deceptive advertising".  http://www.northcountrygazette.org/news/2007/05/15/pet_lawsuit/

 I say stick to foods and manufacturers that you KNOW can back up/certify where their ingredients come from and the quality of their sources and then you won't have to "guess" at what you're actually feeding.  If a company cannot assure you  that they are using USDA inspected , disease-free meats that have NOT been rejected by the USDA  as not being fit  for  human consumption... I'd avoid them.... period.  I'd also prefer meat sources from New Zealand and Australia over any unverified US source simple because of the rigorous restrictions those countries impose on the meat industry there. ( Brazil is another country with EXTREMELY strict standards when it comes to raising animals for meat for example their cattle/beef are required to be free-range grass fed ;).

 I love the ingredients for this food but only insofar as I can "assume" they are USDA inspected ingredients. This company makes no claim, however that ANY of their ingredients are from quality, safe, inspected sources . Sure.. they use bison and venison but from WHERE and HOW is it raised ?? Is their fish ethoxyquin-free ?? Is it farm raised or wild caught ?  If it's farm-raised it's antibiotic and pesticide laden. Bison and venison can very well be raised in a "factory farm" setting. I don't see them making any claims that it's grass fed or free-range or from anywhere outside the US where it would have to be. This food could very well be a Science Diet / Nutro / Iams quality product with more clever marketing by using "exotic" meat sources and throw ins making it SOUND  like a Timberwolf/Orijen/Nature's Variety/Innova quality product.  We  just don't know  though, do we ???

 I am not sure we can ever be 100% sure about anything we feed our dogs that we purchase and do not make ourselves.

 My dogs are doing well on this and Hektor is doing great. He has had no issues with his tummy, no gas, no itching and his coat is gleaming.

 The true test will be over time but so far I am very happy with this food and it is the only food except California Lamb and Rice that he has been able to tolerate. His coat and skin and itches have improved 100% since switching him to the TOTW

Bison... raised in a "factory farm" setting? Have you even been near one of these shaggy balls of hormones? They wild and dangerous and nobody in their right mind would EVER raise them in any way other than free range. Deer are far too easily stressed to be raised in that manner as well, although I do suppose its possible.

 Have you had a tour of a Timberwolf/Orijen/Nature's Variety/Innova facility? Have you personally inspected their meat meals or testing facilities? How do you KNOW they are any better than anyone else??

 And just because Australia doesn't allow non-human grade products into THEIR foods doesn't mean they won't export sub-quality ingredients to the right buyer. The australian stamp doesn't mean near as much as a companies own personal quality controls and standards.
 

 

Bison... raised in a "factory farm" setting? Have you even been near one of these shaggy balls of hormones? They wild and dangerous and nobody in their right mind would EVER raise them in any way other than free range. Deer are far too easily stressed to be raised in that manner as well, although I do suppose its possible.

   You are quite right.  It takes a specially bred animal to thrive in factory farming conditions.  Not all cattle do well, nor most sheep breeds, nor all pig, rabbit, or poultry breeds.  And even those have to be preconditioned (as in cattle and swine), or bred to be slaughtered extremely young, to make it to slaughter weight.

I did ag surveys and "game meat feed lot" wasn't even an option offered for "type of operation".  

 I emailed the company and asked how much taurine was in the food, they said there was none added. I thought even dogs needed taurine?

k_dawg

 I emailed the company and asked how much taurine was in the food, they said there was none added. I thought even dogs needed taurine?

The taurine is probably already in the food. A lot of the high protein grain free kibbles already have adequate taurine levels in the ingredients that there is no need to supplement. Did they say that they did not supplement it or that the food did not contain it at all? Dogs don't need taurine like cats need it. I know that it is good for them but I think they can survive without it and not suffer the horrible effects that a deficiency has on cats (not saying they should have to go without it).

Taurine is an amino acid (found in muscle meat) and dogs are capable of synthesizing it based on their metabolic needs. That is why it is not added in most dog foods. Cats, on the other hand, don't sythesize it, so supplementation is necessary when commercial foods are fed.

The levels found in most quality, meat based kibbles, is more than adequate for most dogs.

 Ohh okay. The woman I talked to didn't seem to know much about it, she said that there was no taurine listed so that means there was none added. As for how much is in it, I guess the only way to find out would be send it to a lab or something.

glenmar

Not to rain on anyones parade, but I am sooooo over using anything ever made by Diamond.  First they had the corn issues, then the big recall touched them but did they dump the tainted food??  Nope, they sold it to PIG farmers......those folks who raise pigs that end up on our tables.  JMHO, but if Diamond has anything to do with it, it's not getting in my door.

 

That would be my concern..   Has Diamond really changed??     Or just the bag...   This is a company driven by profit and dis-regard for the American public? To do what they did dumping the tainted food into our food chain shows what they are about. All their main ingredients may look good but how can I be sure it's not the waste products from all their sources?  If any company should have been put out of business by all their re-calls this one should have been......  They just keep changing the name...  

The scary part is they make many feeds for companies that don't have their own manufacturing plants...  

Misskiwi67

Have you had a tour of a Timberwolf/Orijen/Nature's Variety/Innova facility? Have you personally inspected their meat meals or testing facilities?

 

 

I havnt,but i know someone who has toured the Natura plant. They were encouraged to take the produce straight off the conveyor belt to eat,the guide that took them around the plant did just that.They also get their meat delivery every second day(which apparantly is a more expensive way) to ensure freshness and so the meat doesnt sit around for ages before being processed.

 I've seen a video tour of the Natura plant, and their quality control is right up there with the bigtime companies. I'm quite happy with their company procedures and their products as well... they aren't really a company I would include in the same spectrum as the other super-premium foods because they run their business the way the big companies do (Purina, Hills, Royal Canin), including having their own research facilities.

The problem with so many of the other companies is that they either don't produce their own foods, or don't have the manpower/money to have major quality controls in place. Merrick would be one good example of how these quality controls break down... and wasn't it Natural Balance that had rice gluten in the food even though it wasn't in the recipe because the manufacturer swept it in under the rug? 

fish n dog

glenmar

Not to rain on anyones parade, but I am sooooo over using anything ever made by Diamond.  First they had the corn issues, then the big recall touched them but did they dump the tainted food??  Nope, they sold it to PIG farmers......those folks who raise pigs that end up on our tables.  JMHO, but if Diamond has anything to do with it, it's not getting in my door.

 

That would be my concern..   Has Diamond really changed??     Or just the bag...   This is a company driven by profit and dis-regard for the American public? To do what they did dumping the tainted food into our food chain shows what they are about. All their main ingredients may look good but how can I be sure it's not the waste products from all their sources?  If any company should have been put out of business by all their re-calls this one should have been......  They just keep changing the name...  

The scary part is they make many feeds for companies that don't have their own manufacturing plants...  

Well that's just the nature of capitalism. I wonder if you'll find any company that does not have the ultimate goal of earning a profit? Sure Natura may also want to feed pets nutritious food but that is not the ultimate goal. The ultimate goal of any business is to generate a profit. One company may be more ethical than the next, but the end goal is still the same, so in the end ethics becomes a moot point. Natura has just as much a chance of meeting the same fate that Eukanuba and IAMS met and it probably will end that way when the company becomes a serious competitor among the major pet food labels. Diamond has several different product lines that go by different names (CS and TOTW) but they still manufacture products under the Diamond label. They are not trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes with regards to their new product lines. They are just trying to compete with the other grain-free kibbles on the market. The Diamond name is already well known so it is just easier to create another product line rather than take all the effort to change a product line that already has a large following of people. In regards to selling the waste product to pig farmers, Diamond did what it always does, it sells the waste from their manufacturing process to someone else. Diamond did nothing extraordinary. They were simply functioning within our economic system. Many companies do the same exact thing.

iggypop

fish n dog

glenmar

Not to rain on anyones parade, but I am sooooo over using anything ever made by Diamond.  First they had the corn issues, then the big recall touched them but did they dump the tainted food??  Nope, they sold it to PIG farmers......those folks who raise pigs that end up on our tables.  JMHO, but if Diamond has anything to do with it, it's not getting in my door.

 

That would be my concern..   Has Diamond really changed??     Or just the bag...   This is a company driven by profit and dis-regard for the American public? To do what they did dumping the tainted food into our food chain shows what they are about. All their main ingredients may look good but how can I be sure it's not the waste products from all their sources?  If any company should have been put out of business by all their re-calls this one should have been......  They just keep changing the name...  

The scary part is they make many feeds for companies that don't have their own manufacturing plants...  

Well that's just the nature of capitalism. I wonder if you'll find any company that does not have the ultimate goal of earning a profit? Sure Natura may also want to feed pets nutritious food but that is not the ultimate goal. The ultimate goal of any business is to generate a profit. One company may be more ethical than the next, but the end goal is still the same, so in the end ethics becomes a moot point. Natura has just as much a chance of meeting the same fate that Eukanuba and IAMS met and it probably will end that way when the company becomes a serious competitor among the major pet food labels. Diamond has several different product lines that go by different names (CS and TOTW) but they still manufacture products under the Diamond label. They are not trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes with regards to their new product lines. They are just trying to compete with the other grain-free kibbles on the market. The Diamond name is already well known so it is just easier to create another product line rather than take all the effort to change a product line that already has a large following of people. In regards to selling the waste product to pig farmers, Diamond did what it always does, it sells the waste from their manufacturing process to someone else. Diamond did nothing extraordinary. They were simply functioning within our economic system. Many companies do the same exact thing.

So it is just about how big a house and vacation homes you end up with..... sad state of affairs today... just keep fooling the public because they are dumb. Some people with a soul might say that Diamond was wrong to sell that tainted feed to a pig farm knowing it was under re-call.. You make it sound like all people in the business world act this way.. I would like to believe you are wrong but I am beginning to see that if I buy dog food no one cares what goes into it as long as you get away with it.... Very very sad.