Dog Community

spiritdogs

Posted : 4/20/2007 11:24:02 AM

ORIGINAL: PACleader

Excellent explantion Mudpuppy!

Yup, I liked that one, too. But, then, you know how I feel about your occasionally brilliant posts. [

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spiritdogs

Posted : 4/20/2007 11:27:06 AM

I would like to ask glenmar how long have you been training your dogs to be able to recall them off of chasing animals like you metioned in your post. I am wondering because I have never seen this behavior outside of the dog club that I am part of.

I know you didn't ask me, but I thought I'd offer you some hope... My latest dog, Sequoyah, is an Australian Shepherd (very drivey little girl - "chase moving objects" is her favorite game). She learned "leave it" and "come" within a few weeks, and in a few months was leaving dogs. cats, rabbits, squirrels, and blowing leaves - to come to me.
The secret is in knowing how to teach a proper recall and not allowing the dog to ever get the idea that "come" is optional. Leslie Nelson's DVD "Really Reliable Recall" can help with that part of the training.

Chuffy

Posted : 4/20/2007 3:19:39 PM

Chuffy in your example above I have to assume that one of the 2 people is the dogs handler and the one with the food is not. With my dogs in that situation they will always recal to me. This is actualy an excersise that we practice. We practice this so the dog is focused on the handler and not everyone else.

No, that wouldn't be a "fair test" because obviously your dogs have a prior attachment to you and recall training from you. Just a friendly dog with 2 neutral people. Or several situations like that, to get more of a cross section. I'd put money on it that most times, it is the person with food who gets the better response.
And then try having 2 people walk the dog at the same time, one issuing treats for EVERY recall (coke machine) and one issuing treats for SOME recalls (slot machine). The dog will continue giving a reliable response to the slot machine but will quickly come to ignore the coke machine - unless he is hungry or fancies what they have in their pocket.

Brent

Posted : 4/20/2007 4:20:38 PM

I disagree with haveing a stranger recall your dog. I train my dogs to ignore all other command that do not come from myself or my wife. I would never allow my dog to follow the commands of another person. That could be so dangerous. Example you put your dog in a down stay and you go into your house to get something while you are inside a kid comes by and calls your dog, your dog breaks the stay command because it was recalled and runs into the street where it get hit by a care. So your test to me is irrelevant because my dogs would not recall to anyone whether they had food a squek toy or not.. that is what I like about the method of training that I am involved in.

Does treat training methods teach those same practices?

timsdat

Posted : 4/20/2007 7:15:22 PM

So your test to me is irrelevant because my dogs would not recall to anyone whether they had food a squek toy or not.. that is what I like about the method of training that I am involved in.

Does treat training methods teach those same practices?

Yep. See it all the time in Obedience rings all the time. It's called the long sit and down and almost all those people use positive training methods including treats and toys.

glenmar

Posted : 4/20/2007 8:08:06 PM

My dogs recall only to family members and mine have been trained in the kinder and gentler ways. Kind of shoots that argument in the butt, doesn't it.

(not posted as anything but a forum member)

Chuffy

Posted : 4/21/2007 6:51:48 AM

Just a friendly dog with 2 neutral people.

NOT your own dog..... It was a hypothetical thing. Forget it. [&:]

mudpuppy

Posted : 4/23/2007 10:43:58 AM

and it just would not work in the real world.

you failed to proof your training. Nothing wrong with the technique. Yeah, you can train a dog with a choke collar. But if done properly you will get faster, better results with a clicker and a handful of treats.

spiritdogs

Posted : 4/23/2007 4:59:26 PM

ORIGINAL: mudpuppy

and it just would not work in the real world.

you failed to proof your training. Nothing wrong with the technique. Yeah, you can train a dog with a choke collar. But if done properly you will get faster, better results with a clicker and a handful of treats.

We go over and over this, but, yes, the key is to do it properly and proof the behaviors you want.

BTW, I would hope that if I fainted while on a walk with my dogs in the woods, that they would recall to another human who could, presumably, call the ambulance for me, then take my dogs home to their dad. The idea of not wanting dogs to answer the command of another human is largely an ego issue, not one of safety. In fact, therapy dogs MUST be able to be handled by someone other than the handler, in case you have an incident while visiting a facility. It's on the test.

Dave Hill

Posted : 4/23/2007 7:12:24 PM

ORIGINAL: bmaggard

ORIGINAL: JM

1st post. It's a spammer.

Yes this is my first post. But I am not a spammer. I really do train by these methods and I believe in them 100% I have seen them work in real world situations. Example I have taken my 2 Golder Retriver's to a store with me and put them in a down stay while I went inside. On my way out I say some people trying to call my dog into there car. My dogs would not move. They had no interest in the other people. I cam out side called them to a heel and went on my way. This is why I believe in this training and is why I would recommend the book that I did. I will recommend it again and again because I feel it can help alot of people that feel that treat training does not work.

Just so I can be called a spammer again here is the link again to a [linkhttp://www.richlingk9.com/book/buy-now.shtml]great humane dog training book.[/link]

If you would like to find out more about the trainer and auther of the book visit his website at [linkhttp://www.richlingk9.com]www.richlingk9.com[/link]

This link is listed as your "homepage" on your profile. You may not be an automatic "spambot" but you're still just here to sell a product.

glenmar

Posted : 4/23/2007 8:17:07 PM

Anne, that's an excellent point about being in trouble in the woods. One I had not thought of. I know that on the streets and in town when we are out and about, my dogs obey me and won't go to strangers. I guess I would hope that they would go find me help should it be needed.

Tyler WILL obey others when we are at the facility....but that's the only time. Ya should have seen the little spit go tearing down the hall yesterday when the nurse called everyone to come to dinner! [&:] But he was SUPREMELY careful to dodge the folks wheeling their way down the hall. [

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getting dog to listen without treats