Dog Community

"Regaining Control"

Posted : 3/13/2007 7:07:31 AM

So last night I take Killian (my German Shepard) out for a walk to begin some "re-gaining control training". He's not bad but I wanted to change some things for the better. Now I know him being 8 years old sounds odd but I figure it's never too late and to be honest he's easier to train now than he was 5 years ago.

Before when I'd walk him I allowed him to kind of do his thing and sniff where he wanted as long as he kept in the same direction I wanted to go. I've since learned that I was letting him lead the walk and it made me the follower. So last night I worked with him on keeping his head just to the left and slightly behind my leg. The first two minutes he seemed a bit confused and frustrated but it was surprising how fast it just seemed to fall in line. Once he realized what I wanted it was by far the best walk we've ever been on. I can't get over how quickly he caught on as well.

Now....for the down side. 3/4 of the way through our 40 minute walk I head something running up behind us. I turn around to see another dog charging down. Killian natrually tensed up and was ready to defend both himself and I. It was within 6 inches of happening when I was able to scare the other dog off, but only to ten feet away. I was amazed at watching it's owner just slowly walking up, making no effort to gain control of their loose dog in a hurry. After she got a hold of it's colar I asked her why she didn't have it on a leash and she said that her dog never takes off on her in the yard and it's only because my dog is a German Shepard that her dog wanted to fight. It was obvious that there was no reasoning with her so we moved on. Killian was naturally tense over the next minute or two but then amazingly just snapped right back into where we were before walking peacfully.

It was frustrating that my attempt to "regain control" of my dog turned into preventing a dog fight but in the end I still think it was mostly a positive episode. He was much calmer last night when we got home which is a great thing and I can only see good coming of this.

mudpuppy

Posted : 3/13/2007 8:52:03 AM

Before when I'd walk him I allowed him to kind of do his thing and sniff where he wanted as long as he kept in the same direction I wanted to go. I've since learned that I was letting him lead the walk and it made me the follower. So last night I worked with him on keeping his head just to the left and slightly behind my leg.

this is a complete and utter myth. The dog who is physically in front is usually NOT the "leader"-- the young expendable swift dogs go out in front, the leaders "lead" from the rear.

Making your dog walk like this, not allowing him to sniff around, is torture to a dog. Dogs explore the world via their noses and move much faster than humans. How boring to be forced to walk at a human's slow pace and be forced to not sniff around. Why are you bothering to walk your dog at all if you are going to treat him this way? What does he get out of the walk- nothing. No mental stimulation from sniffing the world, no exercise (walking at a human pace does nothing to exercise a large dog).
I prefer my dogs to walk ahead of me so I can see them. They are allowed to do anything they want except pull on the leash. If I'm actually planning to exercise them, I expect them to move out at a steady trot in front of me while I jog, no stopping to sniff, but we also do sniffing-walks too. If they were never allowed to sniff, just jogged, they'd get pretty unhappy and probably refuse to go.

What do you mean you need to "regain control"? the best way to "gain control" over a dog is to practice NILIF and enroll in an obedience training class.

Joshua Forester

Posted : 3/13/2007 8:57:19 AM

Do you know how to fly an airplane? Do you know how to build a rocket? Do you know how to tie a fly? The reason I'm asking is not everyone is an expert but yet you come off like I'm an idiot for trying things that I'm reading and some of them on here. Instead of coming off being arrogant why not offer advice? If I don't know I can't do anything about it.

My dog does get plenty of "sniff time" these walks are purely for excersice. Unfortrunatly right now I can't do anything faster than a walk for him.

Angelique

Posted : 3/13/2007 9:11:24 AM

Sounds to me like you handled the walk and the loose dog in fine leadership style.

I'm glad you were able to get the other dog to back-off and continue your walk without dwelling on the situation.

Good for you! [

]

mudpuppy

Posted : 3/13/2007 10:09:34 AM

why not offer advice? If I don't know I can't do anything about it.

you haven't exactly explained your problem-- what do you mean "regain control"? hard to offer advice other than explain that making your dog walk behind you won't convince the dog that you are the leader.

jenhuedepohl

Posted : 3/13/2007 10:22:07 AM

I think it is important for all dogs to learn "self-control" and that includes being able to walk politely on a leash without stopping at every distraction or sniffing every object. I let Lucy sniff around on walks, but only when I say it's OK. I lived too many years with a dog that paid no attention to me - I was just an anchor at the end of the leash. So I decided to start Lucy out with controlled walks so that she could learn that we're partners on this walking thing and it carried over to her behavior when she's off-leash and in the house.

As you saw with the that close-call, uncontrollable dogs are a risk to themselves and others and we do our dogs a favor by training them.

Joshua Forester

Posted : 3/13/2007 10:28:32 AM

ORIGINAL: mudpuppy

why not offer advice? If I don't know I can't do anything about it.

you haven't exactly explained your problem-- what do you mean "regain control"? hard to offer advice other than explain that making your dog walk behind you won't convince the dog that you are the leader.

Well to be honest I was more or less pointing out the direction I was going in with my dog right now. My goal is to show my dog that I'm the leader and once he understands that then I will allow him to do certain things as long as he understands when I say it's enoguh it's enough.

What I was getting at is that I felt like all you wanted to do was tell me everything I'm doing wrong without explaining what should be done or why it was wrong.

Joshua Forester

Posted : 3/13/2007 10:30:09 AM

ORIGINAL: jenhuedepohl

I think it is important for all dogs to learn "self-control" and that includes being able to walk politely on a leash without stopping at every distraction or sniffing every object. I let Lucy sniff around on walks, but only when I say it's OK. I lived too many years with a dog that paid no attention to me - I was just an anchor at the end of the leash. So I decided to start Lucy out with controlled walks so that she could learn that we're partners on this walking thing and it carried over to her behavior when she's off-leash and in the house.

As you saw with the that close-call, uncontrollable dogs are a risk to themselves and others and we do our dogs a favor by training them.

That's exactly what my goal is. Killian does have manners but I've let him do things over the years that I shouldn't have. Thing like he insists on getting out the door before I walk out if I'm heading to the backyard or taking him on a walk. He's a bit pushy is all, and it seems like excitement but I want him to learn to control that more.

houndlove

Posted : 3/13/2007 10:49:49 AM

You could just teach "heel". When more control is needed during walking, just put the dog into a heel. When it's easier and safer to have a more relaxed walk, release from the heel. I've been teaching "heel" to one of my dogs and we use it when we have to walk by another barking dog or a yard full of yummy squirrels, or through a crowd, or past some nasty yet delicious piece of garbage on the ground.

Me, I like to have my dogs in front of me, where I can see them. Also, closing doors behind me is really hard if there are dogs behind me too. They go out the door first, they just have to wait to be leashed and for me to open the door for them, for their safety. I think a lot of this stuff is really overblown about doors and eating first and all that business. I really don't think the dogs even notice. They want what they want and you can teach them some self-control and the procedures you want used by showing them that what they want only happens when they behave. I don't think there's any need to play head games with your dog.

Susan Robertson

Posted : 3/13/2007 12:13:21 PM

you can teach them some self-control and the procedures you want used by showing them that what they want only happens when they behave. I don't think there's any need to play head games with your dog.

So, by using the "wait" command at a door is that not teaching your dog self control? I think it is. When they behave and wait for me to go out, then I will release that "wait" command. It does teach self control and I've gone through first. I don't see that as a "head game". It is a neccesary thing if you don't want to be bowled over by a big dog rushing out the door and pushing the owner to the side. I think that's a mistake.

Personally, I don't think taht going through doors first is overblown at all. Those of us with working breeds that can be pushy, or need strict NILIF know this. It's just an exercise for self control and can be work for a lot of independent dogs to accomplish. No different than teaching any other command.

I also like a dog at the left side for a nice walk. What's wrong with that? I think the OP was rudely attacked for just sharing what he is doing with his dog. That doesn't make his walk totally worthless for his dog, nor does it make the dog unhappy! That would be overblown to say the least!

If you like having your dog in front and at the end of the leash to sniff then that's your perogative. Doesn't mean the OP is an idiot nor should he be made to feel like one.

espencer

Posted : 3/13/2007 12:34:11 PM

ORIGINAL: mudpuppy

this is a complete and utter myth. The dog who is physically in front is usually NOT the "leader"-- the young expendable swift dogs go out in front, the leaders "lead" from the rear.

Making your dog walk like this, not allowing him to sniff around, is torture to a dog. Dogs explore the world via their noses and move much faster than humans. How boring to be forced to walk at a human's slow pace and be forced to not sniff around. Why are you bothering to walk your dog at all if you are going to treat him this way? What does he get out of the walk- nothing. No mental stimulation from sniffing the world, no exercise (walking at a human pace does nothing to exercise a large dog).
I prefer my dogs to walk ahead of me so I can see them. They are allowed to do anything they want except pull on the leash. If I'm actually planning to exercise them, I expect them to move out at a steady trot in front of me while I jog, no stopping to sniff, but we also do sniffing-walks too. If they were never allowed to sniff, just jogged, they'd get pretty unhappy and probably refuse to go.

What do you mean you need to "regain control"? the best way to "gain control" over a dog is to practice NILIF and enroll in an obedience training class.

This is total BS, they can get their mental stimulation with games and command training; they can sniff only after proving that they behave during the walks, NILIF includes sniffing time

foresteronw: Thanks for coming here and share your experience, dont let anybody tell you that what you are doing is wrong because is not and besides if thats the way you want to walk your dog then thats fine, is your dog, those are your walks and if you feel comfortable that way then you are in the right track

Dogs need boundries and limitations like those ones so they can learn that they are not allowed to do everything they want, good job [

]

ORIGINAL: houndlove

Me, I like to have my dogs in front of me, where I can see them. Also, closing doors behind me is really hard if there are dogs behind me too. They go out the door first, they just have to wait to be leashed and for me to open the door for them, for their safety. I think a lot of this stuff is really overblown about doors and eating first and all that business. I really don't think the dogs even notice. They want what they want and you can teach them some self-control and the procedures you want used by showing them that what they want only happens when they behave. I don't think there's any need to play head games with your dog.

Oh they do notice indeed, there is anything wrong about who eats first in a human-dog relationship since they dont eat from the same plate, i walk my dog right next to me, i have her in a leash and i know exactly where she is, i dont need to have my eyes on her to realize where she is

I also walk out the door first and my dog follows me, i wait for my dog to go out and then i close the door, no big science there, that way i'm letting my dog know that the walk will be that way from the very beginning, even when i dog sit my friend's dogs i do it that way, it does not matter if they spent their entire life pulling their owners, thanks to that technique their dogs walk perfectly with me

Joshua Forester

Posted : 3/13/2007 12:37:23 PM

Thanks for the positive words guys/girls. I appreciate it and I'm glad I'm not way off track on this. I'll update as it goes on but I can tell you that just ONE TIME I could see a difference in him last night.

J M

Posted : 3/13/2007 12:57:50 PM

Welcome to my world.

The best thing you can do for your dog (and I am talking from experience) is to never allow another dog in his space. Or close enough to attack him. We had a dog run off of it's porch (unleashed of course) and attack Zeus. There is just something about a big dog on a leash that makes loose dogs want to kill them. Maybe they know they have the advantage over them or something.

And yes! You will run into idiots everyday. Everday, I tell you. So stay vigilante during your walks. If you hear the words, he wants to play, he's friendly, it's okay...do know that trouble is but a second away. And get your dog out of dodge.

I try to keep Zeus away from idiots and I carry Direct Stop

ETA: NILIF (nothing in life is free) link....here is the NILIF program. You can google for more info. Don't underestimate the power of this program concerning leadership skills.
http://k9deb.com/nilif.htm

Now....for the down side. 3/4 of the way through our 40 minute walk I head something running up behind us. I turn around to see another dog charging down. Killian natrually tensed up and was ready to defend both himself and I. It was within 6 inches of happening when I was able to scare the other dog off, but only to ten feet away. I was amazed at watching it's owner just slowly walking up, making no effort to gain control of their loose dog in a hurry. After she got a hold of it's colar I asked her why she didn't have it on a leash and she said that her dog never takes off on her in the yard and it's only because my dog is a German Shepard that her dog wanted to fight. It was obvious that there was no reasoning with her so we moved on. Killian was naturally tense over the next minute or two but then amazingly just snapped right back into where we were before walking peacfully.

It was frustrating that my attempt to "regain control" of my dog turned into preventing a dog fight but in the end I still think it was mostly a positive episode. He was much calmer last night when we got home which is a great thing and I can only see good coming of this.

houndlove

Posted : 3/13/2007 1:18:52 PM

Well, the "wait" command is a learned behavior and I almost never hear of 'going through doors first' talked about as a 'wait' behavior, but as something your dog should do if he knows you're alpha. A dog who goes through doors before you supposedly is being dominant. And I think that's just silly. It's just a dog who hasn't learned the 'wait' command. Which is a different thing entirely. "Wait" is awesome and vital for saftey if you have large dogs. I do "wait" at the front door so I can get my stuff together and open the door and then stand aside for them to go out and I shut the door behind me. But I had to teach that whole series of behaviors by witholding access to the outside until they were able to meet my criteria. But I think what I'm hearing is a desire to enforce or impose these things without training them first or showing a dog why it's worth their while to perform them. It's not something they just do once you've proved that you're dominant. They'll still want to go through doors as soon as they are opened until you show them how not to.

Joshua Forester

Posted : 3/13/2007 1:33:31 PM

ORIGINAL: houndlove

Well, the "wait" command is a learned behavior and I almost never hear of 'going through doors first' talked about as a 'wait' behavior, but as something your dog should do if he knows you're alpha. A dog who goes through doors before you supposedly is being dominant. And I think that's just silly. It's just a dog who hasn't learned the 'wait' command. Which is a different thing entirely. "Wait" is awesome and vital for saftey if you have large dogs. I do "wait" at the front door so I can get my stuff together and open the door and then stand aside for them to go out and I shut the door behind me. But I had to teach that whole series of behaviors by witholding access to the outside until they were able to meet my criteria. But I think what I'm hearing is a desire to enforce or impose these things without training them first or showing a dog why it's worth their while to perform them. It's not something they just do once you've proved that you're dominant. They'll still want to go through doors as soon as they are opened until you show them how not to.

I'm in no way thinking that it's going to be magical if I go through the door first and it will make his attitude completely different, but I can see how that might have come off. I more or less am trying to teach him that it's o.k. to do certain things as long as I say it's o.k., but if I want him to stay or wait he needs to learn patience.