Pulling horribly on leash - UPDATED

Me and Max just back from hiking earlier. I decided to take his flexi so that he could have a little bit more freedom out there.  I also didn't bring his harness. Or treats. BIG mistake. So guess what I did for the full 2.5 miles? Got drug around by a 85 pound Golden, that's what. My arms and shoulder's are more tired then my legs. He was worse then he has ever been. Even if I locked the leash while it was in close, it didn't matter. He wouldn't respond to any commands. Half the time he would run to the very end, and I would have no choice but to brace myself. The rest of the time, he would be at the end of the leash with constant tension on it. Not really pulling, but not walking loose either. It definately wasn't comfortable for me. I should have brought the easy walk. That's my fault. He was SO focused on sniffing and all the other things going on around him, he wouldn't even look at me if I said his name half the time. Is there anything else I could do or bring with us next time to make the hike more enjoyable? And what should I be doing while we're there to help with this? I would love for him to be able to hike with me in the middle of nowhere off leash. That would make both of us much happier. 

Instead of the easy walk, you can try a premier martingale-style collar. They are great for pulling, and start to establish better collar response. The problem with harnesses, is that that it only really resolves pulling on the harness. Slight pressure on the harness makes the dog turn away from the tension towards you. What happens when you're ready to move on from a harness to a collar like you did? The dog will have established no collar response, and everytime the dog pulls, it has the urge to pull away from the force. This is the exact same of response you get from traditional harnesses. The premier collar gives the same effect as a chain or prong collar, except more for the soft-hearted people who can't stand to see their pup in a harsh tool, or people who don't know how to use a chain or prong.


[linkhttp://www.premierpet.com]Premier Pet Products[/link]


I would use a normal, 6' leash on hikes until he is trained a bit better for a flexi or long line.


ETA: The only way you are able to hike with him off leash is if he has a perfectly reliable recall. He has to come to you no matter what, when ever, where ever. The way you test this is to make a light line  out of cordelette. This is SOO strong, it can hold up a car. Take a piece about 20-50' long, and put a snap at one end, tying it really tight.Put duct tape over the knot for extra strength in case the knot gives out. Tie a handle at the other end, cover the knot w/ duct tape. Put on a pair of grippy strong glove, because it can tear up your hands if you get cordelette that's new. It won't be broken in, and will be very coarse and stiff. The thing with cordelette, is that it's very skinny, between 5-10 mm. It's very light, hence the name. It gives the dog a taste of freedom, w/o the risks.

[linkroduct_Code=0007]Cordelette[/link]>http://www.gearexpress.biz/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=G&roduct_Code=0007]Cordelette[/link]

Ignore what it says about purchaser should know proper setup...thats only really for climbers.


You can also try remote training Max. Premier has a [linkhttp://www.animalbehaviorsystems.com/category.cfm?Category=1]remote control citronella collar[/link].  If he's pulling and doesn't stop when you say easy, give him a little spray. Completely harmless, and works as good as an e-collar.

ORIGINAL: belgmal_girl

Instead of the easy walk, you can try a premier martingale-style collar. They are great for pulling, and start to establish better collar response. The problem with harnesses, is that that it only really resolves pulling on the harness. Slight pressure on the harness makes the dog turn away from the tension towards you. What happens when you're ready to move on from a harness to a collar like you did? The dog will have established no collar response, and everytime the dog pulls, it has the urge to pull away from the force. This is the exact same of response you get from traditional harnesses. The premier collar gives the same effect as a chain or prong collar, except more for the soft-hearted people who can't stand to see their pup in a harsh tool, or people who don't know how to use a chain or prong.


[linkhttp://www.premierpet.com]Premier Pet Products[/link]


I would use a normal, 6' leash on hikes until he is trained a bit better for a flexi or long line.

I seriously doubt that a martingale would work with Max. But who knows. Do they make a really cheap version so I can try it before I drop major money on one? The harness helped resolve his pulling around here (even when he's only wearing his collar), but when we went out hiking, it was distraction overload! He didn't know what to do with himself, nor did I. I could not figure out how to control his pulling with what I had. I eventually just gave up and let him pull until we got back to the truck so we could drive back. I'll never make that mistake again!

The have some cheaper knock-offs at petsmart, I believe, but I'm not sure. As soon as he starts pulling when you go hiking, immediately sit down or stop for about a minute and ignore him. If he comes up to you for pets, wondering why you're not completely devout, turn away. No eye contact, no touching, no noise.shuffle away from him and cross your arms, hunching your shoulders. This tells Max that he did something naughty, and because of that, he doesn't get to keep going. It doesn't process into his brain that way, but comes pretty close. This is basically what should happen in Max's mind:

Get out of car and start hike--->good time with daddy--->Good thing starts

Pulling on leash--->Daddy stops--->Good thing ends

Pulling on leash--->Daddy keeps walking, reprimanding me and yelling mumbo jumbo---> Good thing continues, but I'm slightly confused

No pulling on leash--->Daddy keeps walking, praising me--->Good thing continues, and I'm ecstatic

This will then transform into:

Get out of car and start hike--->good time with daddy--->Good thing starts

Pulling on leash--->Daddy stops and turns away--->Good thing ends

Stopping on leash, looking at daddy--->Daddy still ignores me--->Good thing is still not happening

Start to walk--->Daddy is happy, and pets me--->Good thing starts again

Pulling on leash--->Daddy stops and turns away--->Good thing ends

Stopping on leash, looking at daddy--->Daddy still ignores me--->Good thing is still not happening

Start to walk--->Daddy is happy, and pets me--->Good thing starts again

No pulling on leash--->Daddy keeps walking, praising me--->Good thing continues, and I'm ecstatic

No pulling on leash--->Daddy keeps walking, praising me--->Good thing continues, and I'm ecstatic

No pulling on leash--->Daddy keeps walking, praising me--->Good thing continues, and I'm ecstatic


This is how dogs think. I highly recommend you read The Culture Clash, by Jean Donaldson.

That's not what happens with Max though. I stop and turn around or ignore him, and he doesn't care. He just sniffs within the leash boundaries or just stands there at the end of the leash oblivious to everything. What should I do in these situations?

First, you must manage him when you aren't training polite leash walking.  So, the Easy Walk, or better, a Gentle Leader ( be sure to watch the accompanying video or get a trainer to show you how to use it - many dogs hate it if not introduced to it properly).  Free lessons on polite leash walking: www.clickerlessons.com.
Do bring treats on your walks, and use the walk as a training opportunity.  No off leash activity without a proper recall!!!!  If you want a great protocol for teaching the recall, get the DVD by Leslie Nelson -"Really Reliable Recall" from Tawzer Dog Videos.
You can teach an emergency recall really quickly by using a whistle.  At first, don't call your dog with it.  Instead, for about three weeks, just blow the whistle and instantly hand your dog a piece of chicken, roast beef, etc.  He will learn that the whistle predicts the best darn treats that he never gets any other time.  (If you hate noise, get a silent whistle - Acme still makes them I think).  After the first three weeks, start blowing the whistle from another room - when he gets to you he gets 2-3-4 pieces of chicken and you get really excited.  In another week, start doing it outdoors in a safe fenced area.  Go hide behind a tree, then blow the whistle....reward heavily.  You get the picture. []
As to the "come" word, here are my rules:
1. Never call a dog that you know won't come.  Do your initial work on lead!!!
2. Never call a dog for unpleasant things.  It's not "Rover come, I want to clip your nails". [sm=eek.gif]
3. Never call when the dog isn't facing you - get his attention first with silly noises, or his name.
4. Don't call the dog when it's time to leave the dog park.  Instead, call him and let him go back to playing several times.  Then, when it is finally time to leave, he won't be anticipating the end of fun and refuse to come.

For recall, I have two commands. I use 'Front' for a proper, obedience style recall, and 'Where are you?' when I want Joy in my general vicinity. I use front everday for things like training before meals, or moving from front position into a proper finish before heel work. When I'm being naughty and forget to put the gate to the basement up and hear Joy messing around, I'll yell where are you and she'll come zooming up the stairs
and sit about 5 feet away, looking for a treat.

To teach a reliable recall, I would practice the front (or 'come') game in 6 places in this order:
Living room
Back yard
Hiking trail
Pet store
Parking lot
Strip mall crowded with a bunch of people for ample  distraction

Take Max with a 6' leash (not a flexi, not a 4' either) andput him in a sit-stay.Walk about two small steps, and release him, telling him to come, and start to jog backwards. he'll (hopefully) start running towards you. AS soon as you take up 10 jogging steps backwards, stop, and give a ton of treats. I use a combination of clicker and verbal markers (I say 'Yes!') so that way the dog knows both so I can use a clicker when convenient, or yes when not. Jackpot reward, giving about 5-7 treats in quick sucession. If he isn't truly treat motivated, rabbit pelts work great for tuggy toys to give a quick toss or a10 second tuggy. Repeat this, except the reward should be about 2 treats or still a 10 second tuggy. Make it a fun experience, using happy tons, acting really bouncy, and make yourself just bubbly. Also, only feed at you zipper. This prevents lopsided recalls, if you ever want to go into competive obedience with him. If not, then you don't need to put much emphasis with it.

If he has a perfect recall inside after this, then move onto the backyard. When he's perfect with the yard, then the trail....etc.

You are really having a heck of a time with your dog and I know your frustrations. Goldens can be a real handful. Even my Goldendoodle can be 'squirrely' at times.Because you are having such a hard time getting Max not to pull, and you have tried several approaches already, maybe it's time to train him with an E collar. I use this on my 140 lb. GSD because he can be dog-on-dog aggressive (depends on the other dog). If you think Max pulls your arms out of the sockets, try controlling a very large, very strong German Shepherd! When I first adopted Koda, he weighed 80 lbs. and had never been taught to walk on a leash. He was also very dominant and lunged at every dog, cat and squirrel he saw so walking him was certainly a challenge. I started out leash training with just his collar and a leather leash in front of my house. He did very well and didn't pull. However, there were no distractions. I then walked him in the neighborhood and found out just how dog aggressive he was. We rounded a corner where there was a dog behind a chain link fence and Koda just about pulled my arm off. The two dogs started fighting between the fence and it was all I could do to pull my dog away. I didn't say anything, I just pulled him off and kept walking. I knew I had to desensitize him to other dogs so I did some research and tried several things, one was using a prong collar. This worked to some degree but not completely. I learned about the E collar and after conditioning Koda to the collar before I used it, I then took him for a walk where I knew there were other dogs. It only took one time for him to ignore other dogs. Now he walks past other dogs with hardly a glance and I praise him lavishly for it. I'm not suggesting that this is the only method of training a dog to stop pulling. Koda never pulled on the leash until like I said, we came upon other dogs. He has a high prey drive and nerves of steel so he isn't afraid but he also was never socialized around other dogs even though I have two other dogs. You might just want to research the E collar and see if it's something you would want to try out. I bought mine online from: [linkhttp://www.gundogsupply.com]http://www.gundogsupply.com[/link]These people are super nice and if you don't like the product, they will give you a full refund.  

When I first got my dog, I kept her on a 6" leash clipped to my pants, so that she would quickly aclimate to me and the activities in my (rather quiet) house. I think my dog had never been on a leash before she met me. I wonder if this leash work inside the house could help with the OP's dog. If the dog likes to follow him around anyway, the leash reinforces something good. It might also provide lots of correction opportunities.

Wow, ldharley, a 140lb GSD? I have been around GSDs all my life, but I have never seen one that big. Rumour is  a large boned GSD, but at his worst he weighed in at 119 lb.

I would not recommend an E collar at ALL!  At the most try a citronella collar for more "hands-on" training. If you don't know how to use one you can severely damage your relationship.

I will NOT use an e-collar except as an absolute last resort. And then under the supervision of a professional who knew exactly what they were doing. Even then, I would be very wary to use one.

Honestly, I am a LONG way from there at this point in time. When I see other people's dogs around here, it makes me count my blessings. If all I have to worry about with Max is a little pulling on a leash and occasionally getting into the trash, I consider myself very lucky.

Having said that, I'm going to try to describe exactly what happens on our walks currently. Maybe then someone can pinpoint what I'm doing wrong. I'm going to start from the very beginning.

I get up to get his leash (and harness, if I'm going to use it). I call him to me (which he does very happily) and tell him to sit. I attach the leash to his collar/harness and tell him to stay. I then unlock the door and open it. 90% of the time, he stays put and waits on me to say OK. If he doesn't I call him back and he sits and waits for me to say OK. When we walk outside the door, he usually turns around and waits for me to lock the door (sometimes sitting but I don't really care as long as he isn't pulling me). Then I say "OK, let's go". He usually gets really excited and goes to the end of the leash because he thinks we're going for a ride in the truck. Once he gets to the door of the truck, he turns around and waits on me. Once he realizes we're not going for a ride, he then walks beside me on a loose leash (slightly in front, how far depends on how bad he has to go to the bathroom) on our way to the bathroom area.

Once we get close to the grassy area, he gets a little excited because this is where we always see his friends. He pulls slightly here. Then once we get to the grassy area, the nose goes to the ground and this is where he gets really distracted. While we're walking toward where he usually pees, he doesn't pull. He doesn't pull while he is finding his spot to pee. Then we begin to walk across the field (different directions everytime). Now there is one spot in the field where the grass is a litle tall, about 1 ft high. This is where he does most of his hard pulling. I make him sit before we get there. Then I say "OK, go sniff" and I walk to the edge of the grass and let him walk in it. He REALLY enjoys this and all commands go unheard. This is where he'll lean against the leash and pull pretty strongly. His other bad pulling spot is where one of the other tennant's unaltered lab goes to the bathroom. He pulls to get to all the bushes, trees, etc.

Here is what I do when he pulls. I immediately stop, cross my arms and turn around. I ignore him and wait on him to come back to me (asking for affection, wanting to go on, etc). While this works inside or places he knows well, it does nothing out here. He stops moving (sometimes with the leash taught, sometimes not) and just stands there looking around. His ears are perked up listening and he sniffs at the air. Sometimes he walks around within the "leash boundaries" (he doesn't tighten the leash) and sniffs the ground. I've waited for as long as 10 minutes and he never comes back and sits waiting on me. When we start walking again, whatever he was doing before we stopped immediately resumes.

When we are on our way back, he does the same things as he does on the way there: watches the stairs where his friends live, tries to go to his other friends side of the complex, and tries to get to the truck that he wants to sniff (I've never actually let him do it since its not my truck, but he got to smell it once before I knew he liked it). Once he realizes we're not going to any of those places, he resumes his nice, loose leash walking. He hesitates a little as we pass my truck again. Once we get to my door, I tell him to sit while I unlock the door. Then we go inside and he sits for me to take his leash off. This ends our novel of the walk. []

Hopefully with this information someone can dissect my technique and offer some opinions on what I should change and/or do differently.

I would just say be patient. It will take a while for you to stop the pulling, but currently you're not really doing any thing wrong. Just take your time, bring treats and toy, and have a blast! Make sure you interact with Max also. Get a long line and when you get into enough space, go ahead and run and tug. Fetch. Track down "missing" toys that you threw into that tall grass.

would not recommend an E collar at ALL! At the most try a citronella collar for more "hands-on" training. If you don't know how to use one you can severely damage your relationship

 I believe I mentioned learning how to use an E collar in my post. Please explain to me just how a citronella collar is used to train a dog in obedience? I invite you to research the E collar on the Internet verses using a citronella collar for training. I advised using the E collar for Max because from what I read, nothing else is working. Many people have a misconception of the E collar and the prong collar. These aren't midevil torture devices used on dogs to make them submit. I find it very amusing to read comments about these training tools from people who don't know much about them and have never used them PROPERLY. Unless you know how to use these tools and see the effectiveness, you can continue walking a powerful and energetic Golden Retreiver on a Flexi. You can continue taking Tylenol for the pain in your shoulder, arm and hand. My very large and powerful GSD and I have a great relationship and I have trained him with an E collar. This dog fully respects me, has never tried to dominate me and certainly isn't afraid of me. I would  never do anything to jeopordize our relationship. He sees me as a stable pack leader who is there for him to protect him and care for him. I am not a compulsive trainer and would never harm my dogs in any way to get them to obey me. Please do your home work before you say you would NEVER use an E collar.

Wow, ldharley, a 140lb GSD? I have been around GSDs all my life, but I have never seen one that big. Rumour is a large boned GSD, but at his worst he weighed in at 119 lb

 I don't know much about Koda's history because I adopted him from a GSD rescue. I know that he was born in Hawaii and shipped to California when his owners moved then moved again to Florida. One of the owners became very ill with diabetes and couldn't care for Koda any longer so he gave him up when Koda was about a year old. I aquired him shortly after that and he is now three.After researching this breed I found that there is indeed a large breed of GSD. My vet told me that large dogs have more incidences of hip dysplasia and joint problems so I don't over feed Koda or give him a lot of treats. He gets plenty of excersise but not anything extreme. I can tell you this, when he steps on my foot, it feels like a hammer!!!When people see us walking they tend to cross the street to avoid us just because Koda looks so intimidating. Koda is probably the best dog I have ever owned so far. He didn't have any training when I got him but he learned very quickly. He has a high prey drive and strong nerves and when I bring out his favorite ball, his eyes are glued to it!! He will do almost anything for that ball. Also, when I'm alone in the house, I feel very safe with Koda listening out for me.