Pulling horribly on leash - UPDATED

deranged, psychotic mastiff

 
HEY!!! [sm=uhoh.gif]

www.clickerslessons.com/looseleash.htm

I was kidding about the mastiff, I was using that as an example of strength....I personally haven't met a deranged, psychotic mastiff, and I personally love them!

I was kidding about the mastiff, I was using that as an example of strength....I personally haven't met a deranged, psychotic mastiff, and I personally love them!

 
I knew you were kidding!  [sm=lol.gif]  It just struck me funny that of all the breeds to fill that sentence, you picked mine!! [sm=blush.gif]  How about a deranged, psychotic Dandie Dinmont??? [sm=rotfl.gif]

You really need to concentrate on teaching your dog to walk on leash in a non-distracting environment FIRST, so he learns the verbal command, "let's go", or whatever words you want to use.  Then, increase the distractions slowly.
You may want to do some attention work first, so that he looks at you whenever you say his name, or "ready". 
When I teach loose leash walking, I do it without the leash first - in a safe fenced area of course.  But, I want my dog to learn the command without me interfering by yanking on the leash, even accidentally.  I like nfowler's suggestion about using a management tool like a Halti, or even an Easy Walk Harness, while you are teaching him, so that on your regular walks, he isn't able to just pull you along.  If you notice, she said it took about 8 weeks - this is not overnight success, but it is success, and you should not expect miracles without doing some work.  Pulling is a hard habit to break, but it can be done.

Ok, so I just wanted to add another update.

We just got back in from our evening walk. After working with him for a little over a week, he's a lot better already. I think he enjoys the leash now. He runs up to me when I grab it and automatically sits so I'll put it on. When I open the door, he no longer lunges to get outside. He politely sits, wagging his tail, and waits for me to say Let's go. Then when we get outside, he turns around and sits while waiting for me to lock the door. I've put the Easy walk harness on him almost everytime we go out here lately because it helps so much. With it on, he very rarely pulls at all, no matter the distractions. He also knows "Hey", which means stop walking, turn around, and look at me. Very rarely will he ignore it. Only when there's something that he just has to sniff. If he pulls trying to get to ti though, he gets the tree treatment. I wait until he walks back to me and sits. Then I say "OK, go sniff", that way he gets rewarded for staying close to me but he also gets to do what he wants. Tonight we tried it with out the harness. He did extremely well. He only hit the end of the leash twice, Once he turned around immediately, and the other all I had to say was Hey. I can do all this without treats now. They have already been faded out. With treats, he can walk out to the open area behind our apartment buildings on leash, but then he can be let off leash and will stick close. It still takes some treats sometimes though when he really wants to go somewhere. This can only be done late at night though, when there's hardly any distractions. He's leaps and bounds better then he was only a week ago. We're getting closer to my ultimate goal of being able to walk him off leash, but I have a feeling that's going to be a ways off. His recall needs to be much better than it is now.

A side effect that I didn't quite expect: he is much more polite when other people come up to him. He either waits by me for them to come to him or he sits at my side till they get to us. Then he just calmly walks up to them. I'm pretty happy about this.

Just simple training to walk on leash can actually help in other areas of training, like ground manners (not jumping on people, not stealing food...) because the dog starts to look up at you as a leader. Now, mind you, you're not the alpha, because I DO NOT believe in the pack theory, but rather he is looking at you in a way that a child looks at a parent. Also, don't get it in your head that just because he won't jump on people, doesn't mean that he is ready to be a Rally-O superstar[] You have established a beautiful relationship with your dog, so you should feel very blessed! Some people work years for this kind of respect. I would read Bone would rain from the sky, and I believe it's written by Susanne Clothier (I think)

As for the recall, I would try the flexi recall I described. It works for pulling and recall., though I think you resolved the pulling.


Keep up the good work!

ORIGINAL: belgmal_girl

Just simple training to walk on leash can actually help in other areas of training, like ground manners (not jumping on people, not stealing food...) because the dog starts to look up at you as a leader. Now, mind you, you're not the alpha, because I DO NOT believe in the pack theory, but rather he is looking at you in a way that a child looks at a parent. Also, don't get it in your head that just because he won't jump on people, doesn't mean that he is ready to be a Rally-O superstar[] You have established a beautiful relationship with your dog, so you should feel very blessed! Some people work years for this kind of respect. I would read Bone would rain from the sky, and I believe it's written by Susanne Clothier (I think)

As for the recall, I would try the flexi recall I described. It works for pulling and recall., though I think you resolved the pulling.


Keep up the good work!

I believe that dogs if left on their own without human contact will work in a pack. I think that this ends though once we bring them into the home. We're a different species so I don't think that they apply it to us. Your analogy about children and parents fits my beliefs pretty well.

And don't worry about me getting something in my head, because I don't even know what Rally-O is. [&:]

I haven't completely resolved the pulling. We're close, but it's not completely extinguished. When their are lots of distractions/people/dogs around, he will put tension on the leash and stay there. We're working on it though. Low distractions, he's perfectly fine.

For the recall work, check out Leslie Nelson's DVD, "Really Reliable Recall".  If my hound can do it, your Golden can do it. []

OK, yesterday I was in Walmart picking up some stuff, so I decided to pay a visit to the pet section. Most of the stuff there is absolute crap, but every now and then I see some stuffed toys on sale and pick up 1 or 2. While I was over there, I saw the flexis. When I got him and realized that he likes to pull, I decided that I would never get him one. But this time, I got to thinking about it. I reasoned that one of two things would happen if I got him one.

1) He would do fantastically well on it, since his foster would walk him off leash and since he seems to connect a regular leash with negative things. He would love the extra freedom, and it might actually help create more trust (if he will obey commands on it and come back to me). It might be the next step toward learning to walk off leash reliably.

2) It would be detrimental to the work that I've done so far with his on leash walking. The tension on his neck, albeit slight, would actually incourage pulling.

I just decided to buy one of the cheap knockoffs (heck, it was only 10 bucks and if I don't like it, I'll just return it) and give it a shot. I do know how to use one, and he wouldn't get absolute freedom on it. He still has to respond to my requests, and he can't just go trotting off in the opposite direction. If I he does that, the leash gets stopped and we do the be a tree technique until he comes back to me.

So far, I'm fairly pleased with it. When I first put him on it, he of course tested it's limits, as well as mine. And wouldn't you know it, we met one of his favorite people and one of his dog friends on that first walk. This is where I don't like it. I don't feel like I have as much control. After a couple of walks with it, he's learning it's limits, and what he can and can't do on it. This is where I'm very pleased with it. It gives him more freedom, and he doesn't have that look on his face that says "I hate this. This is so boring." Plus this particular retractable leash is just craptastic. Very poor quality and hardly works right. But that's fine, I wasn't really expecting to keep it. Only to try it out and see if it works for him.

SO, I've decided that I'm gonna make a long line and try it as well. Whichever I like best I'll use from now on. I'm going to always keep my regular leash with me, for when I feel like I need more control. I'm also going to switch it up. Use the regular leash sometimes, flexi/longline others. Maybe this will help him keep his leash manners. Does this sound like a good idea?

I personally never recommend a flexi. A dog needs to learn to "Heel" and walk nice on a six foot, leather leash. A dog needs to learn to walk with the handler, never walking ahead, not even by a foot. Remember, lower ranking dogs never walk ahead of the pack leader. A dog also needs to learn to "Sit" as soon as the handler stops. ALWAYS. A dog needs to learn to stop, sit-stay at every street crossing and only gets to walk again when the handler gives the command to go. A dog values sniffing the ground, trees, bushes, etc. and if my dogs walk nicely for me, I stop in an open area away from anyone's yard, give the "Okay" and let them sniff for a minute or two. I never allow my dogs to pee on bushes, poles, trees, etc. while on a walk. This is called marking and there is no reason for my dogs to mark the neighborhood. The neighborhood and beyond is not their territory and they will not own it. They can do their 'business' in my back yard.For those people who don't' have yards and must walk their dogs so the dog can potty, the dog should be taken to a specific area (not someone's yard) and be allowed to relieve themselves. An experienced dog owner will know the difference between the dog relieving itself and the dog 'marking'. Male dogs are notorious for doing this. Females do it too but I've seen it more in males. When you see a dog 'marking', they will sometimes pee then using their back legs, they will scratch the ground. This leaves a scent from the pads of the feet for other dogs. It's telling other dogs that this piece of ground is 'taken'.Now that you have learned that using a Flexi is virtually useless, it's time to teach your dog the right way to walk on a leash. I only use a leather leash because it lasts a long, long time. Nylon leashes are fine. Have you considered the Martingale collar/leash? These are pretty nice. They are made of strong nylon and are self-correcting. Petsmart sells them but I bought two from the Leerburg site.

I thought she explained why she enjoyed the flexi...?

The thing is, you should only give freedom with that flexi when you say okay. At all times the dog should be at YOUR SIDE, in that nice loose leash walk you've been practicing. When you say it's ok, then he can go and sniff, socialize with his favorite dogs, say hi to his favorite people etc. but only when you say. You have to remember that when you're on a walk, it may be all about the dog, but everthing is also on your terms. The dog wants to sniff? Too bad, I never released you. The dog wants to pee? Too bad, I never released you. This is basically a form of Nothing In Life Is Free, which I rehearse on a daily basis with my dog. She's to young to really "work" per se, since I want to do competetive OB and agility w/ her, so I make her "earn her keep" by making her sit before feedings, wait at doorways with the door open, lie down with the crate door open waiting to be released, sit maintains while I'm typing on here, sitting before I throw the ball, sitting when I stop on walks, sitting to be released when she wants to herd geese..the list goes on. I said earn her keep, but I really don't think a dog needs to earn their keep..but this is for need of a better phrase.

My dad won't let me get a flexi, in fear it will ruin her heel work because it gives her unnecessary freedom, but when your dog is in a heel with  15 feet from the long line dragging behind you, I think you're ready for a flexi.

ORIGINAL: belgmal_girl

I thought she explained why she enjoyed the flexi...?

The thing is, you should only give freedom with that flexi when you say okay. At all times the dog should be at YOUR SIDE, in that nice loose leash walk you've been practicing. When you say it's ok, then he can go and sniff, socialize with his favorite dogs, say hi to his favorite people etc. but only when you say. You have to remember that when you're on a walk, it may be all about the dog, but everthing is also on your terms. The dog wants to sniff? Too bad, I never released you. The dog wants to pee? Too bad, I never released you. This is basically a form of Nothing In Life Is Free, which I rehearse on a daily basis with my dog. She's to young to really "work" per se, since I want to do competetive OB and agility w/ her, so I make her "earn her keep" by making her sit before feedings, wait at doorways with the door open, lie down with the crate door open waiting to be released, sit maintains while I'm typing on here, sitting before I throw the ball, sitting when I stop on walks, sitting to be released when she wants to herd geese..the list goes on. I said earn her keep, but I really don't think a dog needs to earn their keep..but this is for need of a better phrase.

My dad won't let me get a flexi, in fear it will ruin her heel work because it gives her unnecessary freedom, but when your dog is in a heel with  15 feet from the long line dragging behind you, I think you're ready for a flexi.

That's what I was trying to get across. I use it as a normal leash when need be, and when I want him to have more freedom I tell him go sniff. I don't think it's going to work very well during the day, with lots of distractions. Not yet anyway. I just got back in from our walk today with it, and he didn't do as well as he does on a regular leash. And we had quite an experience. See my post in Anything & Everything. I don't even feel like telling it again. I do practice NILIF, though I have to admit I probably don't practice it as completely as I should.

Also, I'm a he. []

Ah...sorry, I found the majority of people on here are girls, so call people she's until I'm corrected[]

Haha, no worries. []