My boy could pull a train

I am a professional dog trainer and even though you wrote, BTW, no pinch collars,your dog absolutely needs a prong (pinch) collar. Prong collars have gotten a bad reputation in the past but I assure you that your dog will respond much quicker and will walk much nicer for you if you use this collar and a good strong, six foot leather leash. A prong collar has no points. The prongs are flat on the tips. There is no pain to the dog and you can put it on your arm or leg and pull it and you won't feel any pain at all.The prong collar mimmicks the mother dog when her pups got out of line. She will 'mouth' the pups and possibly growl, her mouth firm but gentle on the pup's neck. Dogs never forget this behavior and the prong collar, when used correctly, mimmicks the mother dog.The collar must be placed snug up under the jaw and directly behind the ears, high up on the neck with the rings on the back of the dog's neck. I like to clip the leash to both of the collar rings for better control. Before you start out walking with your dog, let him drag the leash around the house for a half hour or so. A lot of dogs go crazy when the leash is clipped on and it's because they know they are going for a walk. Your dog needs to be calm before going out. He needs to sit while you put the collar and leash on and he needs to stay at the door. You go through the door first then call him to you. Make him heel at your side and wait.Give your cue to go like, "let's go" or "walk", or whatever you use. Make sure you use the same command every time so as not to confuse the dog.When he starts to pull (and he will), you say, "NO". If he pulls again (and he will), you give him a pop on the leash. Make sure it's a firm pop so the collar tightens on his neck. Don't yank his head off. You will be using a level 2 or 3 and not a level 7 or 8.  Level 2 being the lightest, 7 and up of course is harder and if he's a very strong dog, you might have to give him a hard pop. The very second he complies, even if it's just a tiny bit, praise him and you can give him a treat if you like. Even if the two of you don't leave the driveway for a week, you MUST teach your dog that he will NOT pull you!!! He will either walk nice or he gets corrected and put back inside.I never allow my dogs to mark when we go on walks. They can do their 'business' in my yard and not my neighbor's yards. When a dog is allowed to pee on trees, bushes and fences along the walk, he is marking territory. This is unacceptable especially if the dog is dominant. If he is allowed to do this behavior, he gains power and pretty soon, he starts to dominate your house, your furniture, your bed, and if you aren't the pack leader, he will become that also if you let him.I only recommend Halti's and Gentle Leaders for children who want to walk a large dog or frail and elderly people who cannot handle a large or strong dog. Many times though, this doesn't work for them either. Using these halters does not teach a dog not to pull. I wish you luck and I hope you change your mind about using a prong collar.

Sandra, that seems to be your solution for each and every dog...the prong collar.  Could you give us some reason why a GL won't work in this situation?  Or perhaps why a prong is better?

It seems to me that a prong should be one of the last resorts, not one of the first.  Since you are a professional dog trainer can you tell us of a case where a prong is contra-indicated?

  They can do their 'business' in my yard and not my neighbor's yards. When a dog is allowed to pee on trees, bushes and fences along the walk, he is marking territory. This is unacceptable especially if the dog is nt. If he is allowed to do this behavior, he gains power and pretty soon, he starts to te your house, your furniture, your bed, and if you aren't the pack leader, he will become that also if you let him.

Could you cite the study or book or article this information comes from?

As a volunteer at the city pound (a place that often accepts dog-fight-rejects/severely neglected dogs), most of the dogs I help train and exercise are POWERFUL pitties who have no concept of leash manners, much less dog manners. As such, we are instructed to maintain full control over the dogs, and, honestly, we use the prong on 99% of our dogs.

The best method I have found to work is the "Be a Tree" method with some tweaking. When most people stop abruptly, their arms usually give a little. This gives the dog far too much leeway and doesn't work as intended. The solution? Put the leash around your waist. Standing at 5 ft 110 lbs, I've managed to maintain consistent control over some very powerful pitties/mixes. The less strenuous way to stop your dog is to step back abruptly as soon as you see the leash getting taut, and to make the dog do a 360 degree turn, eventually landing the dog right back at your side. I usually couple this with a command, like "Back". After 10-15 minutes, a simple "Back" reminds the dog to loosen the lead and plant himself back by my side. This is a greyt introduction to Heel, as well. I hope this helps you, and I would seriously recommend the prong.

ETA: If you're finding yourself stopping every step, walk at a more brisk pace. You can cover more ground and still end up with the same results: A leash conscious dog who is learning the building blocks of Heel/loose leash.

Xerxes,My comment about 'marking' bushes, trees, poles, etc. while on a walk actually comes from Cesar Millan. It also comes from Ed Frawley at [linkhttp://www.leerburg.com]http://www.leerburg.com[/link] As for me constantly advising the use of a prong collar:Using a Halti, Gentle Leader or any other type of harness on a dog that pulls does not teach the dog to stop pulling. This is merely a 'band-aid' solution. Why waste precious training time and effort using these head halters when using a prong collar will train a pulling dog almost immediately?Not all dogs pull and not all dogs need a prong collar. But for the dogs that do pull, a prong collar is best.

ORIGINAL: Stacita

Surprisingly, I've found that I like the no pull harness. The Sporn was difficult for me to put on, but the Easy Walk works for us.  Wolfgang is a freight train and impulsive too. I've gotten to the point where I can handle him with a regular collar one on one but it requires my full attention. If I'm walking him with the other two, particularly before daylight (think feral kitties), the harness is a big help.

We are able to walk even some very heavy pullers on these, so I'm not surprised that you liked it, and I'm really glad it worked for you.
Personally, I would not put a dog in a prong without first trying the Easy Walk, and I would certainly not follow CM or EF's advice on how to use a prong.  Most humans get way too "enthusiastic" with those things.  If I use one at all, I just let the dog get to the end, and pull - if he continues to pull, it continues to pinch (I do not "pop" or "yank" or even move).  If he releases the tension on the leash, the collar loosens, and the dog learns that his action made the icky feeling go away.  If he continues to pull, he gets nowhere (I act like a tree.)

It's like I said before, most dog owners don't know how to use a prong collar correctly. Every time I see a dog wearing one of these, the collar is hanging down like a necklace. This is incorrect. A prong collar is a training collar, not something to hang dog tags from and I have seen that too! My dogs didn't start out wearing prong collars. I have a very large German Shepherd who at one time, was very dog aggressive. (he was a rescue). When I started leash training him I started out with him wearing his leather collar and a six foot leather leash. I didn't know he was dog aggressive until the first walk by a house where there was a dog behind a chain link fence. My dog just about tore my arm off, he pulled me over to the fence and the two dogs 'fought' with each other between the fence. I knew better than to get close to my dog at that point so I got as far to the end of the leash as I could then pulled him away. After that experience, I learned about the prong collar and how to correctly use it. My GSD doesn't need to wear it any longer because he walks very nicely with me, ignoring all dogs along the way. When he ignores them, I praise him. Although he doesn't need to wear the prong collar, I still put it on him just in case. He is 140 pounds of nothing but jaws and muscle and I cannot take any chances. It doesn't matter to me when I hear or read negative things about using a prong collar. Most people have a misconseption about the collar and some think a prong collar is a choke collar. I would never use a choke chain. Put a choke chain around your thigh and pull it as tight as you can. You will end up with a red and painful area on your leg and this is done WITH jeans on. Put a prong collar on your thigh and pull it as tight as you can and you won't get the same results. The only time a prong collar could be potentially dangerous to use is if the handler doesn't know how to use it correctly, the collar is put on incorrectly or the dog is in an aggitation mode and the collar somehow turns or twists slightly which can cause the dog to turn on the handler. I have seen this in personal protection training. It wasn't the dog's fault, it was the handler. I am not a compulsion trainer. I like to think of myself as a well rounded trainer and in that I mean, I use all types of training and not just one. After evaluating a dog, I determine what type of training it should have and what type of training equipment it needs. I certainly wouldn't put a prong collar on a young puppy or an elderly dog or any dog that just doesn't need it. When I visit my clients for the first time I don't just pull out a prong collar and tell them this is what I'm going to use! It all depends on the dog.

I am quite aware how the collar works, am not laboring under any "misconeptions", and still don't recommend them for use on either a timid or an aggressive dog.  There are better ways to approach some issues that are handler and dog-friendly which I prefer to adopt before I go to a prong.

ORIGINAL: ldyharley

Xerxes,My comment about 'marking' bushes, trees, poles, etc. while on a walk actually comes from Cesar Millan. It also comes from Ed Frawley at [linkhttp://www.leerburg.com]http://www.leerburg.com[/link] As for me constantly advising the use of a prong collar:Using a Halti, Gentle Leader or any other type of harness on a dog that pulls does not teach the dog to stop pulling. This is merely a 'band-aid' solution. Why waste precious training time and effort using these head halters when using a prong collar will train a pulling dog almost immediately?Not all dogs pull and not all dogs need a prong collar. But for the dogs that do pull, a prong collar is best.

Sandra, you suggested using a prong on a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel that didn't want to walk.

And if you're quoting CM and Frawley, then I understand your angle.  We won't see eye to eye on much of anything.

Sandra, you suggested using a prong on a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel that didn't want to walk.

And if you're quoting CM and Frawley, then I understand your angle. We won't see eye to eye on much of anything.

 Well, that's interesting especially since these two gentlemen have worked with dogs for many, many years and have had great success. I'm not surprised that we won't see "eye to eye" and it doesn't slow my business down one bit!  I think it's time you just let it go.

ORIGINAL: ldyharley

Sandra, you suggested using a prong on a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel that didn't want to walk.

And if you're quoting CM and Frawley, then I understand your angle. We won't see eye to eye on much of anything.

 Well, that's interesting especially since these two gentlemen have worked with dogs for many, many years and have had great success. I'm not surprised that we won't see "eye to eye" and it doesn't slow my business down one bit!  I think it's time you just let it go.

Koehler had a lot of success, too, and some of his techniques would probably be prosecutable as animal cruelty in some jurisdictions.
Jack the Ripper was never caught, so some would say that means he was successful, too.  Success, the way you have defined it, means nothing to me.  I'm afraid I'm with Xerxes on this one.

I generally prefer to teach a dog to do, do, do things instead of to not, not, not! So instead of teaching a dog to NOT pull, I teach him to heel off lead - yes, off lead. I always do it first thing in the morning and make it the most exciting thing he could possibly do, using a special treat like warm meat or special training toy as a lure. Treat it as though it's just another fun trick like begging, rolling over, etc - make it something your dog wants to do. Then, when he's perfect, you can graduate to on-leash work. Don't resume walking immediately. Just do the heel routine for 1 minute outside your front door, then 2, then more and more. Once the heel is working well, I also teach a strong-pulling dog to pull on command ("whoa", "gee", and ''haw" are even more important of "hike", though). This further lessons his desire to pull when it isn't pulling time since he knows he can satisfy his pulling urge best when in harness. The decreased exercise during training isn't nice but does increase the dog's drive to work.

Audrey, I agree with your approach. You are starting without the leash, and this keeps the goal (attention on the handler and close proximity) in the front of everyone's mind. It also keeps everyone from developing a pulling habit.

You are also doing the important and easily forgettable step of making yourself the most interesting thing in the world--this communicates a lot to the dog IMO!

Just thought I'd chime in that my dog is an intense puller.  He can walk at a perfect heel if he wants (did great at obedience), but having been walked nearly everyday for 14 months, several miles at a time he still has good days and bad days.  I would say we are now up to about 85-90% of the time he walks nicely, but that other 10-15% feels unattainable.

We have used the EZ walk harness and prong collar (not simultaneously) neither of which seems to cause him enough discomfort to stop pulling if he wants to pull.  He could care less - the only thing that will have momentary success is a quick jerk (not a strong jerk its the quick motion that helps).  He would pull with the prong non-stop, but a quick little jerk will stop him (again only for a moment if lets say there's a person ahead of us). I iterate this is not a serious jerk so those that think I'm at risk of injuring my 95lb muscle boy, be assured he is not injured.  The EZ walk harness is the same except the quick jerk is less effective.
We have also tried to tire him out before the walk (he's indefatigable so emphasis on tried) and he is always calm before we set out.
As for the tree, Bugsy thinks its a game.   The stop start of it seems like play to him.  I try to vary it, somtimes when I continue to walk I walk VERY slow or only take a few steps, or go backwards or do the left turns.  You act like a tree he comes back to a heel position and acts like a tree himself.  You start to move again he pulls.
Again this is only about 10-15% of the time but it is darn frustrating.  It is worse if there is a dog he wants to say hello to, or as in this morning the squirrels are chasing each other, or if there is someone walking ahead of us, or he gets a scent and tracking.  Once he 'elevates' its a nightmare.

So no advice from me just sharing my experience

My dog just about tore my arm off, he pulled me over to the fence and the two dogs 'fought' with each other between the fence. I knew better than to get close to my dog at that point so I got as far to the end of the leash as I could then pulled him away. 

 
My only advice is to be very careful using a prong collar to deter aggression. If you are going to use some kind of adversive method to stop aggression a choke chain would normally be a better way to go. (not that I would necessarily use this method). 
 
You should not use a prong collar for the same reason you wouldn't use an e-collar.  Both of these training tools actually stimulate the dog.  Aggression paired with outside stimulation is a recipe for disaster.  It doesn't ever fix the problem...it just pushes the problem below the surface. 
 
On the other had a choke chain subdues a dog through asphyxiation.  Causing the dog to focus on a more immediate threat than the other dog. 
 
Avoiding stimulation is extremely important in these situations. 
 
With some more experience you will find that alternative methods will resolve aggression issues more effectively.