Training slow dogs?

I stop before I get frustrated. Otherwise, I get snappy with Teenie, and upset her.

Teenie is also an older dog (she's older than Marq, at 9) and while she is somewhat food motivated, she doesn't seem to be connecting things very well. It's been five months, and I still haven't gotten her housetrained. The best thing that I have figured out is to work with her for a very short time, several times a day on sits and downs (which she also doesn't get, but she IS getting better), and stop while we're BOTH still happy. I have to train myself, too, LOL. I'm not a very patient person. I'm used to Emma, who can master a chain of commands in.... five minutes, tops.

Same as Jennie, stop on a good note before I get frustrated.  And, honestly, when Roscoe and I first started this meant after 2 minutes.  But I'd just try again 5 minutes later for another two minutes.  He has gotten faster, but he is by no means fast (consider that it took me several MONTHS of daily practice to get him to lie on his blanket throughout our dinner).
 
I was just boggling at the fact that Jennie can get Emma to learn a behavior on cue in one session. It takes me several days to a week with Roscoe, and even then we have to practice within "daily life" for weeks.  Partially, this is me. But partially, he is just not very clicker-savvy.  I fully expect him to get faster, but maybe never as fast as terrier-Emma.
 
 

Emma is somewhat unusual in her breed. They aren't supposed to listen so well, but that's the ONLY job I've given her, and she NEEDS a job to do, so she's learned to work for me. It took us a LONG time to get this far. It used to take her weeks to get something, too, b/c she fought me all the way. I've switched my training methods and learned to be patient and make it lots of fun for her, and make it her special job, and she LOVES it now... It just took some time. 

Some dogs aren't slow learners, it just takes some time for the message to get from their brain to their bodies.  Newfs are like that.  You can say "sit", and nothing happens.............................then, he sits.  If you intervene too soon, the dog never sits.  If you stand still with your foot on the leash and wait them out, they sit.  Not saying that always happens, but sometimes it pays to have that level of patience to see if "delay" is causing the problem.
I find that clicker training does work for slow dogs because it is so consistent in its message of "yes, that's it". 

Well, clicker training has been a nightmare from the very beginning.  Not only does it frustrate Marq, he then frustrates me.  I wish people wouldn't have always talked up clicker training and how great it is and how fast dogs learn with it.  Maybethen I wouldn't be so frustrated that Marq can't learn by the clicker.

I mean he WAS able to learn this: [linkhttp://www.sharkle.com/video/57750/]http://www.sharkle.com/video/57750/[/link] 
 
But later that day I tried again and he COMPLETELY ignored the lid!  I even tried shaping it again..but he was too dumb to understand that.
 
So instead I just tried from starting the lid on the floor like someone suggested, but he would NEVER look at the dumb lid.  How am I supposed to shape a behavior when there is NOTHING to shape!!!!?????????
 
I wish I would have been forewarned that clicker trainign isn't all as fun as everyone says it is.

How am I supposed to shape a behavior when there is NOTHING to shape!!!!?????????

 
What are you doig while you're shaping, Tessa? It was suggested to me that I move around while trying to get Roscoe to offer behaviors, then he couldn't just drop into a down and stare at me (which is what he'd do... so I totally understand your frustration! Really, I do. We'd be in the middle of the living room staring at each other for 5-10 minutes. On the plus side, his "watch me" is really good.[])  But once I started moving around then he started moving around and all of a sudden I had something to shape.

Target trainign isn't a behavior that you can just capture randomly around the house.  You actually have to hold the target in your hand.

I can't see the video, so I don't actually know what you are doing. 

If this is what you are doing, here's my experience:

For targeting, I put the stick as close to Roscoe's nose as possible without bumping it. He would have to touch it just by accidentally moving, it was so close to him.  C/T then.  I did that for quite a few times and SLOWLY moved the target away from his nose.  And he would seem to forget from one day to the next, but then I put it away for several days (I think it was more than a week).  When I brought it out again, he seemed to remember it and lunged to touch it right away.  I think it's called latent-learning -- where they get some time off and the brain processes it almost subconciously.

I'm not teaching it with a stick.  I am teaching it with a lid.

Same principle. [] Stick it really close to his nose so that he has to bump it if he even accidentally moves.

Tessa, I understand your frustration. I work with Max who is pretty fast at learning, and then working with Millie can downright annoying. If I say sit, she stares at me like i'm an idiot sometimes. Other times I just wait a few seconds, and she does what Anne said, but others she will continue to stare at me. Sometimes her butt will start moving towards the ground, she'll get 1/2 or 3/4 of the way there, and she'll pop back up. There have even been times that her butt goes immediately to the floor. Heck, she knows that when I take her out, she has to sit. She walks right up to the door, spins around excitedly, and plops her butt right down. She even knows to sit for petting. She comes over and nudges at someones hands to pet her. If you take your hands away, she plops right down. Sometimes she doesn't even nudge, just comes over, sits and stares. Then she nudges if you don't pet her fast enough. I think the issue with her is that you have to have something she really wants at the time in order to get quick compliance. My guess is that on a very strict NILIF program, she might start doing things faster. The problem is that getting everyone in the house not to give her any attention unless they have her do something first would be hard, and she'd just start hanging around the person or people who would give her free attention. That being said, maybe the reinforcer isn't high value enough. Maybe there is something he's had before and likes better, and although this might sound silly, he's holding out for it? Another possibility could be that there is something else he likes even more than food, like attention, running, a favorite toy, playing with a certain other dog? I was going to tell you something else, but while typing it I just thought, are you sure he's really hungry while you're working with him? Can you change what time you train him or what time you feed him in order to take advantage of him being hungry?

Oh well, Marq is plenty happy to eat his treats.  But he wont' eat his food.  So I don't have to worry about whether or not his feeding schedule interferes for he doesn't eat like he should anyway. 

He really is a tough one. Maybe he eats the treats, but he actually doesn't find them all that wonderful? Millie will eat other brands of dog food (I pick up samples to use as training treats) as a treat, but she certainly would rather have a piece of hotdog, or a piece of liver. Max on the other hand will work excitedly for anything and everything, which has included wasabi peas, carrots, fruit, candy cane, and even his own food. Max is probably the hungriest dog ever, but i'd better not even try to get Millie to work for something like a piece of her regular food. I'd probably have to starve her in order to do that. What are you using as treats? Something really smelly and tasty? What have you tried in the past that hasn't worked well?