Sequoyah's New Jobs

Congrats!! I am sure you too will have a great time!![]

Oh my gosh, already!?!?  She is growing up so fast!!![]  I can't wait to hear all about her training!
 
BTW - I have the opposite problem - Dodger has too much "hang time" and wastes time[] (and the springy-ness is not good for his joints either!)

agilebasenji - I need your best hints for dealing with a flat jumper who takes down rails...

 
Is she knocking them with her front or rear feet?  Also, it's been a while since I read it, but this might help:
 
[linkhttp://www.dogwise.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=DTA106]http://www.dogwise.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=DTA106[/link]
 
Do you know about jumping chutes?  Does it bother her if she knocks the bars?  (I have a theory on touch sensitive dogs.  My basenjis hardly ever touch a bar, but they also have slower weaves since they won't touch the poles.)
 
(I'm running off my battery on the 'puter as we don't have power so I don't know if I'll be much help today.  Surely, we'll be back on the grid later or tomorrow?)
 
 

She can clear anything, ability is no problem, but when she gets going fast, she's apt to hit a rail with either front or back.  It's not lack of spring, it's just that she's soooo fast and focused on the other side, not getting over the jump.  No bascule, if you're familiar with the horsey term LOL.  I already have Clothier's booklet, so I'll go back and take a look at it.  Problem is, I don't have much equipment here, and I am *not* thinking of any outdoor building projects this time of year.  If, by jumping chutes, you mean cavaletti, my trainer has 'em.  I think that Sequoyah really doesn't mind hitting stuff.  With my horsey background, the thought occurred to me to set solid fences up.  Maybe it would work, but this little pipsqueak bounces a whacked tennis ball off her nose like it was nothing and crashes into trees to retrieve her frisbee if it flies too high.  She's just an intense girl when it comes to getting the job done.  (Crap, I need cattle LOL)
Give me your theory anyway)

Hope you have fun Sequoyah! Max just started an agility for fun class a few weeks ago, and he thinks it's great. He says the A frame is pretty cool, and so is backing out of the tunnel halfway and racing out into the field.

ORIGINAL: agilebasenji but they also have slower weaves since they won't touch the poles.

 
How is that possible? I've seen really small dogs do that but I cannot imagine a "larger" dog being able to do that[] So cute! 
 

How is that possible? I've seen really small dogs do that but I cannot imagine a "larger" dog being able to do that So cute!

 
No, not cute; a real PITA (pain in the ***).  [:'(]  Brindlewonderkid would enter the weaves, take 3 steps to the left, turn, 3 steps to the right, etc.  It took quite a bit of retraining to get him down to a 4 or 5 second weave pole (12 pole set).   Have I ever told you that training a basenji for agility is like playing Wack-a-mole?

She can clear anything, ability is no problem, but when she gets going fast, she's apt to hit a rail with either front or back. It's not lack of spring, it's just that she's soooo fast and focused on the other side, not getting over the jump. No bascule, if you're familiar with the horsey term LOL. I already have Clothier's booklet, so I'll go back and take a look at it. Problem is, I don't have much equipment here, and I am *not* thinking of any outdoor building projects this time of year. If, by jumping chutes, you mean cavaletti, my trainer has 'em. I think that Sequoyah really doesn't mind hitting stuff. With my horsey background, the thought occurred to me to set solid fences up. Maybe it would work, but this little pipsqueak bounces a whacked tennis ball off her nose like it was nothing and crashes into trees to retrieve her frisbee if it flies too high. She's just an intense girl when it comes to getting the job done. (Crap, I need cattle LOL)
Give me your theory anyway)

Cavalettis are used to train back end awareness.  They are a great idea, especially for large dogs.  But they are different from what I'm talking about when I say jumping chute.  I'm not sure I have Clothier's booklet handy, so if you don't find any info about jumping chutes there, let me know. 

Bascule, I'll have to look that one up.  Generally if you have a jumping problem, the horse world will have already encountered it and have some great ideas.  And I do know of some people who have set up solid jumps.  (Or filling the horizontal pole with concrete.)   Here are some more ideas that I know of that people have tried  (I'm not endorsing or discounting any of them)

*Different (higher) jump height
*Putting clear packing tape across the jump above the bar (sticky side toward the take off side)  (I used this with tri-ing and the tire jump)
*Hair scrunchies on the feet (to remind the dog of his feet, generally done with the back legs)

Of course like any good trainer, I'm sure you want to break down the behavior.  Below are some of my off-the-cuff thoughts.  Does the dog really understand the objective is to go over the jump and leave the bar standing?   Hmmmm, my guess is not.  Running fast is more rewarding that leaving bar standing, right?  So, we need to figure out how to make knocking the bar equal no fun and leave bar up equal fun continues.   Many herding handlers down the dog after the bar drops and they exit, or the dog gets a time out.  If your trainer is agreeable, this is where I would start.  You can always put the jumps down to 12" when you need to work on handling.  (So you can learn what to do and Sequoyah isn't getting reinforced for bad habits.)  Of course if you are going to do this, make sure EVERY time a bar drops, the fun ends.  Even if you spent $20 per run at a trial and she drops the first bar, even when you really, really want to try the course.  It's really hard to do, but you know how important consistancy is.  (and how strong that intermittent reward can be!)

^^ETA, mostly for readers:  the above is based on my guess that S finds agility fun and rewarding.  If you're having motivation issues with your agility dog, ending the agility session may not be a deterant for doing something "wrong".


The other thing is most flat jumpers take off (and land) farther from the jump than they should.  I believe this is covered in the Clothier book, but maybe not.  A dog jumping a 20" verticle jump (not double or triple jumps) should leave the ground 20" infront of the jump and land 20" beyond the jump.  Try putting an extra bar 20" infront of the jump (on a 20" jump) on the ground to show her where to take off.  I'd do this with 2 or 3 jumps in a row and see where that takes you.

I just tossed out 20" b/c that's where most Aussies are.  Of course insert whatever jump height you're working on, assuming that her growth plates are closed.  If she's less than 1.5 or 2 years, I would not do full height jumping with her.  (That said mostly for lurkers.)

That sould give you a little food for thought.  And really, if you're serious about agility, I tell people 3 jumps and a 12 pole set of weaves is usually all you need.  And my first "jump" was a broom handle resting on 2 paint cans.  Let me know what you think.

Spiritdog - I know you directed your question to Agilebasenji, but I thought I'd pipe in my $.02 if thats ok. []  Dasher will occasionally drop a bar for the exact reason that your girl does.  He gets going too fast and gets flat, rail comes down.[:'(]  I took a seminar with a really great agility trainer this summer and past winter and she taught us a god way to "teach" dogs about getting round and developing a bascule over a fence.  (I too am a horse person []).  Not sure if I will be able to explain it but here goes:
 
You set your dog right in front of a non-winged jump, you place yourself facing the the jump but you are at the standard, so you are between both sides of the jump if you will.  (You will probably need to kneel down for this excercise) You take a treat in the hand furthest away from your dog and you lure your dog over the jump, but where the path of your hand ends will be almost touching the floor right on the other side of the jump.  So you sort of create an arch with your lure and it brings your dog's head down on the landing side of the jump which creates an arch.  Depending on your dog depends on where your hand needs to start.  With Dasher for example, I can start with the treat almost touching the ground on the other side, he knows to hop over the jump and drop his head to get the treat.  Some dogs may try to run under the jump if they don't understand the excercise so you may need to start with your hand a bit higher.  Also, you may want to start with the jumps at a lower height depending on the age and expereience of your dog, but the goal is to do this at his/her normal jump height.  You want to do this going in both directions so thats why its easier to kneel by the standard, so that way you just switch hands.   This is a good excersice for indoors as it only requires one jump.
 
I have also tried putting one end of the rail higher than the other in order to get Dasher to pay a bit more attention and that helps as well.  But being a horse person from way back, it has always been instilled in me that 99% of all errors are rider errors has carried over in my dog training. [] So when we are on course and Dasher gets flat it is usually my error.  []  If I get too far ahead of him he will get in racing mode and will get flat.  Don't get me wrong, I can lead out to a jump without issue (usually []), but if I am running on course and get too far ahead is where the flatness will start (hope that makes sense).  I think those of us with really fast dogs have the tendancy to think we need to get ahead of our dogs all the time and tend to race them but that is not always the best thing.
 
Hope that all made sense and hope you don't mind me butting in []

Hope that all made sense and hope you don't mind me butting in

 
I, for one, am always looking for more agility training info.  You never know what your next dog will need. 
 
I think CleanRun did a jumping issue a while back.  You may want to try their website and get that issue if you don't subscribe. 
 
Aside:  I think it's rather interesting that in my agility circles, the trainers I hear mentioned aren't the trainers people here argue over.  I do hear people mention Pryor and Clothier on occasion, but mostly people talk about Susan Garrett, Greg Derrett, Hobday, Simmons-Moake, etc.  I suggest alot of Rugaas stuff with many people.  Here's a link so you can see for yourself the trainers CR has stock of.  [linkhttp://www.cleanrun.com/category.cfm?Category=313&CFID=340586&CFTOKEN=60743886]http://www.cleanrun.com/category.cfm?Category=313&CFID=340586&CFTOKEN=60743886[/link]
I don't see the jumping issue, but there is a Baily DVD that I'd love to see.  (For $100.  Maybe Santa will indulge me?)

I have a friend who says she saved that CR and is trying to find it for me.  I already tried the different jump height, and was already thinking about making the jump solid With horses, the harder "knock" is sometimes enough, and I think you are on to something with the back end awareness.  I tried her this morning and it was the hind legs that caught it mostly.  Usually, I start my dogs walking through ladders on the ground, to get them thinking about where they put their feet.  I didn't do it this time because the ladder is in use - we are shingling the north side of the house this year)
Also, one thing I figured out is that getting over fast is extra rewarding because she gets her fave toy as a reward.  I am planning to use something a little less stimulating as the reward. []
Keep any suggestions coming in general for training the fast, keen dog!!  I love this stuff .