Dog Community

Posted : 7/6/2006 4:44:14 PM

Ahh, see cats are listed as carnivors, but they eat plants with more gusto than most dogs. My plants are safe with my dog, not so much with my cat. In fact, the sell "cat grass" growing kits.

If we were to argue that a dog is an omnivore based on the fact that it eats plant matter in its digest, than a LOT of aniamls classified as carnivores would be similarly classified. Killer whlaes gorge themselves on the guts of herbivorous whales. Are THEY omnivores? Have you seen their teeth?

I'm also quite sure that predators like sharks, big cats, and hyinas end up with the plant matter from their prey in their gut. Would you classify these aniamals as omnivores?

sillysally

Posted : 7/6/2006 5:01:30 PM

While we are on the subject of wolf diets, here is what various zoos have to say about the diets they give their wolves--

[linkhttp://nationalzoo.si.edu/Animals/NorthAmerica/Facts/fact-graywolf.cfm]http://nationalzoo.si.edu/Animals/NorthAmerica/Facts/fact-graywolf.cfm[/link]
[linkhttp://www.oregonzoo.org/Cards/Tundra/wolf.grey.htm]http://www.oregonzoo.org/Cards/Tundra/wolf.grey.htm[/link]
[linkhttp://www.brookfieldzoo.org/pagegen/htm/fix/fg/fg_body.asp?sAnimal=Gray+wolf]http://www.brookfieldzoo.org/pagegen/htm/fix/fg/fg_body.asp?sAnimal=Gray+wolf[/link]

On link lists 20% of the wolves diet is small animals, and sometimes plants. So the real question is this--how much of an animals diet has to have plant matter before it is no longer considered a carnivore? I have seen no strict percentages on this, however, but the general concensous amoung the zoos is that grey/Mexican wolves at least are carnivores.

ron2

Posted : 7/6/2006 5:28:16 PM

Among the researchers who actually go out in the forests and mountains and physically follow and observe with their own eyes wild canids, canids are omnivores in the class carnivora. The bear, which also eats a lot of berries and vegetation and is an omnivore is also in the class carnivora. These animals were classed in carnivora in the 19th century and I expect, since species nomenclature has changed, we will also see a change in classification.

ron2

Posted : 7/6/2006 5:29:51 PM

Amen, sister. I am here to testify ...

ron2

Posted : 7/6/2006 5:38:57 PM

I used to think dog was a carnivore but was functionally omnivore because of what we feed them. Then Kennelkeeper educated me. And then, I read more and continued. I have a few character flaws that I must live with. 1) I don't know everything and I freely admit that. 2) I prefer documented science over opinion and semantics. This has put me at odds with some people. 3) I'm infected with a terminal case of logic, which also puts me at odds with some people, especially if they try to run a numbers game. I can spot a math flaw as if it were 500 W bulb in a 10' X 10' room.

Be that as it may, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. A person is free to feel that a dog is a carnivore and I'm free to believe that a dog is an omnivore. I adjust my view according to science, rather than mashing science to fit my theory. Einstein started doing the latter and it caught on like wildfire.

sillysally

Posted : 7/6/2006 5:45:02 PM

I haven't seen ANY evidence that suggests that wolves eat as much fruits as bears. Bears will scavenge for berries and vegitation an hunt if the oprotunity arises. The lives of wolves revolve around the movement of their prey. In addition, EVERYTHING I've looked up on carnivores states that dogs and wolves are listed among them. I just don't think that a primarily meat eating animal (nearly 100 % of it's diet) that decides to grab a berry off a bush can be considered an omnivore.

However, the maned wolf has a diet that is roguhly 50% plant matter--to me THAT is an omnivore.

ron2

Posted : 7/6/2006 5:45:37 PM

And Renee has quoted from the textbooks in her degree program exactly the nature of the canine GIT and how it can digest some plant matter, some raw, some pre-digested, or some cooked to mimick pre-digested, i.e. broken down into usable components. Science, from physiology, biology, and actual field studies of timber wolves, gray wolves, and the Adirondack coyotes shows them to be omnivores. There is also the Maned Wolf of South America. In summer, at least 50 percent of it's diet is vegetation. There is one plant it likes so much that they named the plant for it. Fruta Lobo, Wolf's Fruit.

ron2

Posted : 7/6/2006 5:49:09 PM

Ahh, see cats are listed as carnivors, but they eat plants with more gusto than most dogs. My plants are safe with my dog, not so much with my cat

Maybe you'll have to tell your cat to quit that or she'll lose her union card in the obligate carnivora.

(the preceding was tongue-in-cheek humor)

sillysally

Posted : 7/6/2006 5:52:38 PM

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. When I look at my dog, and look at what science has said about the classification of carnivores, I see a carnivore that can digest some plant matter in certain situations. I do give my dog fruit and veggies, but only in certain forms, as it's certainly not going to hurt her.

Then again, my lizards eat all veggies with one or two meal worms a week, and I still consider them herbivores.

ron2

Posted : 7/6/2006 5:56:25 PM

And my dog doesn't care for carrots or celery. He will eat grass. He will eat a cracker. He will eat pecans. The only time I got him to eat a celery stick was because it had been cooked in a turkey breast, so it tasted like meat. And, he does like my cajun mashed sweet potatos, which are good and hard to pass up, regardless of species. I would say dog is an omnivore with strong carnivorous tastes but yet, a true opportunist scavenger and will eat anything, getting whatever it can out of the food.

I also think dogs do best on a food that has meat or meat meal (preferrably) as the first or prevalent ingredient.

sillysally

Posted : 7/6/2006 6:08:29 PM

Sally LOVES pumpkin, LOVES it.; I have chopped up veggies and mixed them with her food. She will eat most of them. I haven't tried fruits outside of what is in her kibble--I should try apples.

willowchow

Posted : 7/6/2006 8:29:14 PM

Whenever I read these posts I get nervous thinking I really don't feed any fruit or veggies to Willow

She does like broccoli so she gets that when I make it for us.

For the original poster--

Take the broccoli crowns, cut the stalk part off, put in a pan on the stove, add water and a little olive oil. Steam until you can put a fork thru easily. Drain the water and put a little shake cheese on top, recover so the cheese will melt.

For humans--serve at this point.

For dog--I usually take just one crown out because once you mash you've got a ton, mash with fork until a pate type consistency. I remove any "stalky" looking parts even as I mash.

I usually serve about a tablespoon on top of her meal once a day.

I don't like overdoing the veggies, it could cause a problem, but that's Willow's issue and not all dogs.

Hope it helped.[

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jennie_c_d

Posted : 7/6/2006 9:33:14 PM

It is strange how, at least in the US, people tend to eat 1/2 to 2/3 meat and only 1/3 to 1/2 fruit, vegetables, and grains. Everything I've read has stated that it should be more like 1/5-1/6 meat, 4/5-5/6 of the other stuff. Then again I'm looking at it from a man's perspective, and might be seeing more of the gendered expectations in eating habits.

People really do seem protein fixated. Everybody's afraid they're not getting adequate protein. They buy protein shakes and powders, and guzzle down $100s of protein drinks. Too much protein can cause major issues! Most of us get *more* than enough protein in our diets, including vegans. Protein comes from lots of places[

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Melissa Camiel

Posted : 7/7/2006 10:59:52 AM

I so agree with you jennie!! I am a vegetarian and I hate it when people tease me that I am gonna die from lack of protein[:-]. I eat beans, rice, whole grains, lentils, veggies, soy, etc, so I am pretty sure I get enough amino acids in my diet.

About the dog being a carnivore thing, i don't know. I really don't think a dog can live a healthy life on just meat. Where are the rest of the vitamins?? Dogs may prefer the taste of meat, (so do most humans) but I think that in the wild they are scavangers and will eat all sorts of things.
Wolves may be different, but I think today's domesticated dogs are definately not carnivores. After thousands of years of eating table scraps from people, I think that dogs do a lot better when their meat is mixed with grains, veggies, or fruit.

Melissa Camiel

Posted : 7/7/2006 11:01:44 AM

Oh, and to the OP:
If you give your dog jarred baby food veggies and fruit, they seem to like it better. It is already mashed and usually tastes pretty good.[

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How can I get my dog to eat fruits and veggies?