Natura uses feeding tests?

You know it's going to happen. It did the last time we talked about the AAFCO and feeding trials.
 

Very funny kennel_keeper. []  The facilities that Natura has for conducting feeding trials sounds great. Here's what John says about how Eagle Pack tests thier food;
 
" We lab test our formulas for all nutrients, have computer models and did feed trials and cross  referenced all three. Today we have a breeder advisory council that feeds our foods and monitors things like overall health, breedings, number of pups, and number of pups born live/healthy and how old Eagle Pack fed dogs live"
 
 They also have this statement on the website:
             Animal feeding tests and / or AAFCO Nutrient Profiles substantiate that Eagle Pack diets are formulated
                     to meet the nutritional levels for maintenance or all life stages, whichever is appropriate
 
 
                                

I really like the way EP conducts it's business. How better to test their products than on real dogs in real homes? It just makes such good sense to do it this way. I know that my dogs are doing great on EP (and we do rotate with EVO for the small dogs). My beagles are performing great in the field, have nice coat, good muscle mass, great energy, virtually NO "hound" smell, and a much cleaner kennel! You can just look at my dogs and SEE they are healthy.
 
Don't get me wrong, I really like the way my dogs do on EVO, but I don't usually feed it for prolonged periods and I like mixing it with fresh, raw, or even some EP Holistic Fish at times. They DON"T have any tummy issues, so it hasn't been a problem for them mixing things up at times.

The Natura testing center was not complete until late summer of 2003, and probably not ready for testing trials until sometime after that as they state it took a while to acclimate the new "residents" to their new environs. I would imagine that they would focus on feeding trials for their newer products before backtracking on products they already have been offering for years with no reported problems.

I agree that I like the home-based studies the best (Natural Balance apparently has the same protocol), but humane testing centers aren't bad either.  Heck, I know lots of breeding kennels where the dogs aren't treated as well as described there . . .[]

I personally feel feeding trials should be conducted on animals in their homes, not in a controlled environment.  I've been conducting feeding trials for three years on dogs in their home environments and not on carefully selected dogs specific to the outcome I'm looking for.  There's a wide variety of breeds, environments, activity levels, ages, etc and by doing it this way, I feel we are able to compile data and evaluate the food on a more realistic and true basis.  Just my opinion.
 
AAFCO feeding trials are pretty liberal and it's not hard to have a food qualify as being complete in accordance to feeding trials as established by AAFCO but I certainly do think feeding trials are important. 

yes, I agree. A dog kept in a laboratory must have much lower nutritional requirements than dogs out in the world, particularly active and working dogs. And I think feeding trials should go on for many years, referably for the lifetime of the dogs involved.
We need to move beyond those ridiculously lax AAFCO requirements. Set a higher standard.

We need to move beyond those ridiculously lax AAFCO requirements. Set a higher standard.

I agree....however, it is difficult to do feeding trials in a non-controlled environment (not impossible, just very difficult).

But I still wonder why they don't have something saying "not for large breed puppies" on the EVO bags....any thoughts?

Don't get me wrong, I really like the way my dogs do on EVO, but I don't usually feed it for prolonged periods and I like mixing it with fresh, raw, or even some EP Holistic Fish at times. They DON"T have any tummy issues, so it hasn't been a problem for them mixing things up at times.

 
Okay, this is OT but since you study animal nutrition a lot; [] I would like to feed Jessie some canned food from a different company besides Eagle Pack; because of her allergy to chicken all I can feed her are the beef, duck, and lamb. I would like to feed her the rabbit and venison from Nature's Variety. Do you think feeding foods from different companies would cause any problems since thier nutrient profiles are different? I noticed you mix EVO with EP Fish so it seems like it would be okay. Thanks.

But I still wonder why they don't have something saying "not for large breed puppies" on the EVO bags....any thoughts?

 
no idea. But then there are lots of "regular" puppy foods and "regular" adult foods that are unsuitable for large breed puppies and don't say that on the bag.

Well, Renee, at least there's different wording this time. No one has quite said what I predicted would be said. Maybe I jinxed it by expecting it.
 
I think the AAFCO guidelines are good place to start and I think a number of companies exceed the minimums, based on customer feedback, etc. For example, the long-term feeding trial of Great Danes on Eagle Pack. They may have started with the AAFCO guidelines and then fine-tuned it as bloodwork, performance reports, etc, came along.
 

Jessesmom,
 
I think that mixing the canned would be fine, just add small amounts at first. The NV canned formulas are really great. I have used them in the past and my dogs have loved them. I would not hesitate to use them again, if they weren't so expensive and could get them readily. EVO is now making a rabbit, duck, and venison also, but not sure about the price yet.
 
 

Ron, it's ashamed that they had to betray you like that!!! They could at least say SOMETHING derogatory about Nutro, []

Thanks kennel_keeper(Renee?); you can call me Janice; Mordanna doesn't recommend feeding foods from different companies at the same time and I have also read this on the Great Dane Lady's site;
         [linkhttp://www.greatdanelady.com/articles/do_not_mix_dog_food_brands.htm]http://www.greatdanelady.com/articles/do_not_mix_dog_food_brands.htm[/link]
    
When you mix two foods you will cause excesses and deficiencies in certain nutrients as well as disrupt the delicate balance of the food, especially the minerals composition which is critical to the body's metabolic and skeletal systems. These deficiencies or excesses may not be evident immediately in an adult dog, but they will manifest in a slow deterioration of the animals health and reproduction capabilities. As we know from past experience, it does not take long for the body to exhibit dietary problems in a growing animal ([linkhttp://www.greatdanelady.com/articles/developmental_disease_in_puppies.htm]HOD, OCD, Pano[/link]).
To prevent these imbalances, stay with one "type" (adult, senior, etc.) of food at a time, and more importantly stay with one super premium brand of food.
 
 However since you read so much about nutrition and mix EP and EVO and some other members mix different brands of food I thought it may be alright. Nature's Variety is expensive but I only have one dog to buy food for so it's easier to afford it. I found a place online called Phydeaux Pets that lets you order any quantity you want instead of 2 dozen of one flavor and thier shipping is very reasonable.

jessies_mom---I want to add that there is no proof behind those statements (as much as I respect Mordy).  There is NO way you can add minerals on top of minerals; they simply "average" out.  That's like saying if you mixed canned and kibble (both "nutritionally complete" with their own vitamins and minerals) you are adding excess, which we know isn't true.    

Thanks papillon; Perhaps this is something that only recently has been proven to be false.