"Naturally Complete" from Purina's Dog Chow line ...

Well, to me, it's not JUST about food.  If a person is worrying about $20 or a small amount like that on a weekly basis.  What's going to happen if they need a larger amount if the dog gets sick.  What about monthly flea/tick and heartworm meds??  I just don't think if you're that strapped that a pet is such a great idea. 
 
Don't get me wrong, everyone goes thru times when money is tight.  But, for the most part you should be able to feed the dog and pay for medical attention, etc. without it being having to nickle and dime like that. 

I know from past experiences that one month everything can be rosy and you can feed your dog caviar and two months later things are so bad you are digging in furniture to find enough change to buy a loaf of bread.  Strikes, lay-offs, plants shutting down,  down -sizing,  or illness can   suddenly put you without a job no money, or very little coming in.   They can't afford to feed their dog anythign except the cheapest of cheap food, so are they suppose to give up their beloved dog because they fell on dire circumstances?  Or is an elderly person living all alone  on very little money not suppose to have a dog for his/her only companion, best friend, etc because it is a struggle to feed the dog.  I suspect in many of these cases the dogs are happier despite the condition because they are truly loved and know it.  They have a forever home and are not given away because of tough conditions--a dog would not understand "better conditions", they only understand they are gone from their home and beloved master.
 
Glenda is right, a loving home should not be denied a dog, even if it is a struggle--and owners are willing to met the struggle--because it is poor family.  Many well-to-do families do no better.  As a matter of fact I was talking to guy on on the boat a couple of weeks ago that has a small ranch of just over 1000 acres and he said he has a dog and a cat, both 9, who have NEVER seen a vet.  i asked about rabies shots and he said 'Oh, out on the ranch there are no dogs close to us."  I thought "What an idiot--there are fox, coyotes, skunks, coons, all kinds of rabies carrying animals out there in the country."  Of course food never came up so i don't know what he feeds.
 
Another case, my youngest son was engaged to a girl from a wealthy family, also ranch owners plus he had intrest in several businesses.  Their dogs and cats sere never taken to the vet either.  One got sick, he shot it.  Wasn't going to waste the money.  Believe me i was most happy when they broke up as I would never have been able to stand to be around that guy.  
 
My grandma was on fixed income, took in a stray and she did feed it cheaper food, but she got it to the vet for check ups and vax.  He eventaully went blind, lived her her about 12 years and was thought to be about 16 when he died.  he came just after my grandfather died and was a God send to my grandma.
 
In my opinion, a dog would rather have love and attention, shelter, more love and attention,  enought to eat even it if is the cheapest of food, and more love and attention than anyting else.  They don't care if they are eating ol Roy or Timber Wolf so long as they have the love and attention they need.

Sandra--Obviously, if the situation comes upon you after you've already got the dog you wouldn't give it up.  But, many people have a financial situation going on and continue to take on more pets.  Again, it's not just about food, it's all the other things too.
 
I agree, some wealthy people don't do much better.  However, sometimes that's more ignorance than lack of money.

In the case of the family of the girl my son was engaged to, he just flat didn't want to spend the money--they could fly off to Paris to shop, spend 2 weeks skiing in the winter (and pay for their married kids & spouces),  but didn't want to spend the money at the vet.  That was a plain case of not caring two hoots in you know where about their animals.  Now it if was one of his prize black angus, a vet was called out.  i know the cats were mousers in the barn, but I have no idea why they had dogs as they were not working dogs, not sporting dogs.  Just to have dogs around i reckon.
 
As to the guy on the boat, his cat was also a mouser and the dog was "let them know if anyone was coming up the long driveway."  To me that is a darn poor reason to have a dog.  Alarm could be put and signal and would not need love and attention.
 
There is a lot of chatter on another all breed forum about the designer dogs these hollywood starlets are toting around--do they really love them, or is it all for show.  Who knows for sure, but i suspect it is more for show.
 
 

ORIGINAL: willowchow

Well, about the beet pulp thing, there are a few people on my chow board who do believe that the beet pulp has discolored their chows coats.  Not turned it red per se, but discolored it some.

Although my dog's diet doesn't contain Beet fibre I do know it's the white sugar beet fibre that is left over after taking all the sugar out, not red beets
Faded coats are usually caused by a lack of minerals, often copper. Black coats turning reddish etc.

All info on food is useful ~ I've learned heaps over the years both from books and various dog forums.
Still won't feed my dog a diet that's mainly grain however poor we get on Superannuation from next year ~ I'll save that for chickens.
Best

This whole, feeding a premium food is equal to or less expensive, is very general and not really true a lot of the times, and I hear it all of the time.  You have to look at it on a case by case basis. For instance it costs me $40.00 for a  35 lbs bag of  Natural Balance Ultra Premium, and for my  75 lbs dog it is recommended to feed  4 cups a day.  I feed Purina One, and I usually can find a 37.5 lbs bag for $20.00 and the recommendation on the bag for a 75 lbs dog is 3.5 cups a day, so it would be more than 50 % more to feed the NB.

Oh the passion of nutrition threads. And you are correct. It seems to me that humans (and someone else once said this) often resemble a pack of  feral dogs.
 

It seems to me that humans (and someone else once said this) often resemble a pack of feral dogs.

 
And humans are omnivores.

Human, as an animal, may have started out eating raw food. And then stumbled on the process of cooking and found that they lived longer because they didn't have to deal with food-borne illness. Grain does grow in fields, along with several other plants. It is only man who decides one field will be grain, only. It's not like grain was engineered in 1945 so that dog food companies would have "cheap filler." Just today, Shadow was eating leaves from some of the plants in our yard. I think the only reason he doesn't munch some animal feed grain from one of the farm fields is that I will not allow us to trespass on the tilled field, stomping on crops. We walk in the drainage ditch beside it.

I think the material abbysdad posted is from petdiets.com; they have certified nutritionisits you can consult with. It's a shame you're lactose intolerant; guess that means you can't eat ice cream.

I'm not lactose intolerant[] I'm allergic to cow's milk, in all forms, including lactose free. It's the casien that bothers me, I think.

I do eat soy ice cream. I have a couple of favorite brands, that are fantastic!

Human, as an animal, may have started out eating raw food. And then stumbled on the process of cooking and found that they lived longer because they didn't have to deal with food-borne illness.

How do we know that we live longer?

If you believe in the Bible, people used to live for hundreds of years. Now a 100 year old human is a news worthy event.

I have never suffered from food borne illness. Neither have my dogs. All of us will eat fruit and veggies (and they'll eat animals) straight from the ground. I usually rinse it if it has much dirt, but we love fruit so much, we don't make it to the house with it.

Yeah, my dogs adore fruit

ORIGINAL: willowchow

Well, to me, it's not JUST about food.  If a person is worrying about $20 or a small amount like that on a weekly basis.  What's going to happen if they need a larger amount if the dog gets sick.  What about monthly flea/tick and heartworm meds??  I just don't think if you're that strapped that a pet is such a great idea. 

Don't get me wrong, everyone goes thru times when money is tight.  But, for the most part you should be able to feed the dog and pay for medical attention, etc. without it being having to nickle and dime like that. 

 
 
I didnt always have to go through this stuff. When I bought Lizzie I was at a point where I could REALLY afford to feed a dog. She was fed Eukanuba (as her breeder fed her) she went to the vet 2 days after purchase and I just generally went crazy spending $$ so she could be comfortable.
 
But Puerto Rico recently went through a govermental (is that a word?lol) crisis and while it did not affect us at the moment it was happening it sure hit us hard afterwards. I work for a Greeting Card company and we 'made' big $ for Mothers Day but because of the crisis people got scared to spend a dime and the stores did not sell much so about 30-35% of merchandise sold came back.
 
Now my boss is being totally paranoid, so sometimes I dont work my full 8 hours, and the big raise that should have been coming my way has taken a detour. But having a job is better than not having a job and currently im getting back on my feet so its time for Lizzie to live right again []
 
Thank God my son qualified for the WIC program or else i'd be spending big on milk.

I am happy to hear that you can have ice cream.  i am an ice cream addict--just ate a bowl of vanilla with peaches in it called Homemade Vanilla & peaches and is put out by the chain grocery store here in parts of Texas, HEB.  Is Creamy Creations and  I like it better than Blue Bell, Dyers,Dryers, Blue Bunny.  YUMMMMM.  But it is good that you have found some that you can eat.  I never heard of soy ice cream, but of course I have never had a reason.

I just went and read all 6 pages of this.  Here's my responses:
 
Sandra said: You are right, the whole thing is to feed your dog what is BEST for him, be it purina, Science Diet, TO, ol Roy, EP, whatever.  But it also has to be taken into consideration, what is available and what you can afford.  Simply put, do not think you HAVE to feed your dog EP because it works for X's dog, or TO because it works for Y's dog, or Nutro because it wors for Z's dog or Purina because it works for my dog. 
 
Heres my thing... you say feed what's best for him...how do you know what is best if you don't try others?  For example, Zoe was fed Iams by her previous owner, so I did too.  Her poops were small, she was shiny, she was eating and enjoying...why switch?  Someone mentioned that you always think your dog is doing well until you find she can do even better.  I switched to Innova eventually and Zoe became super soft, poops even less, can't get enough of her food, and is so soft, my neighbor pet her once and ran out and bought Innova for his dogs.  So, although a dog may appear to do well on a food with lower quality ingredients, just like someone can do well on pizza, they may do better on a higher quality food, just like a human can do better on a more balanced diet.  That being said, I am not telling people what to feed, but I definitely notice a difference! 
 
As for the money thing... I am 26.  Most of the jobs I have had since college (and I didn't really work in college) have paid me between $25k and $30k a year.  I have never lived paycheck to paycheck because I was always a saver and live inexpensively.  I probably spend more on fun things for Zoe than for myself.  However, the majority of people I work with run to the bank as soon as they get their check.  The check is gone before it even arrives!  Some of these people are single, some have families.  I don't understand how you would take on an animal, child, anything, if you can barely support yourself.  Now, I understand everything is not always planned, but I agree with Willow's mom, that I don't think if you don't have a lot saved, so that if you were to be put on hard times you can afford to live, you should take on other lives as a responsibility.  Maybe I don't get it since it hasn't been something I have had to deal with though. 
 
As for rich people and animals... I tutor 3 very wealthy families (multiple kids go to private schools for over $30k a yr. and we're not talking college).  One family has bread their labs and also have others, all hunting dogs.  They feed proplan.  Another family feeds their lab beneful.  I briefly mentioned other better foods, but it hasn't really come up and the only reason I know they feed beneful is I saw the bag.  Another family has a standard poodle they don't brush because it is annoying and the dog gets all matted during the winter, and they shave her in the summer.  So yes, money doesn't make everything better for the dogs.  I do think if the people knew of better options (aside from the poodle) they would possibly use them though.

Well, to me, it's not JUST about food.  If a person is worrying about $20 or a small amount like that on a weekly basis.  What's going to happen if they need a larger amount if the dog gets sick.  What about monthly flea/tick and heartworm meds??  I just don't think if you're that strapped that a pet is such a great idea. 

Don't get me wrong, everyone goes thru times when money is tight.  But, for the most part you should be able to feed the dog and pay for medical attention, etc. without it being having to nickle and dime like that. 

But your saying (I think) that if you can't afford premium food you shouldn't have a dog. I can not agree to that at all, especially since there are so many dogs eating less then premium food that are just as healthy and happy as our dogs that are eating premium food.  That is proven right here on our forum in the health section.
Maybe the $$ you save on the food can be saved away for medical expenses in the future. 
Gee, if people that really are strapped for money didn't have pets, there would be more pets in rescues or worse, PTS. Its not like they would be saved for the people that could more afford them.
I do believe there are far more dogs are fed Purina then premium food because most people don't know better, and if they had a problem with them, they would be out looking for a solution which might take them to better food.
For me, healthy and happy and living a nice long life is what is important and if Purina or premium can do that, then thats all that counts.