Trying to pick a "good" dog food, any help?

It's not about being a nutrition expert or playing nice. It's about a lot of vets out there who are suggesting certain foods and downplaying others, playing on people's trust since vets are the one stop shop on pets.

And in response to dvet, animal nutritionists do exist and it bothers me that vets take a "We're the next best thing" approach.

It's not about being a nutrition expert or playing nice. It's about a lot of vets out there who are suggesting certain foods and downplaying others, playing on people's trust since vets are the one stop shop on pets.  END QUOTE

Ah, but this is a two way street.  Those against SD, Purina, Pedigree, etc do the very same thing.  They play down those foods, call them crap, garbage, etc and play up "their brands". I have yet to hear a vet call Eagle pack, TO, etc garbage, junk, crap, etc. 


I have never studied animal nutrition, just human.  And EVEN there you get different ones with different opinions.  Unless every single one agrees, then there is no sure fire one correct way.  Who knows which is right and which is wrong. Each think their information is the only correct information and all other should be ignored. 

The difference between someone on this board downplaying Purina and a vet downplaying Eagle Pack is that the vet is an authority figure, and thus gets the benefit of the doubt. As far as vets being down on the holistic brands, not all are, but most will suggest you switch over to Science Diet or Eukanuba. I've experienced it enough to know that's the general attitude, at least in Texas.

Different opinions on nutrition are fine when they're educated opinions. I don't have enough education or information to think my opinion is worth any more than the neighborhood vet. That's why I tell people that I am speaking on behalf of the manufacturer's recommendations and product descriptions. I am aware that there are some people in the holistic foods business that don't follow the same policy I hold myself to.

Why do you interpret this as undermining your education and experience

 
Rhetorically, I'm not a vet. DaVet is. I never suggested vets didn't share the background of their experience and knowledge. You suggested it could happen and that you would leave such a vet. Or was the question rhetorical?
 

week old road kill

 
Now, you're making me hungry.
 

One really good point about educated opinions.  These people are educated in that field, but still can't agree.   They see  the same thing, but interprut it different.  Do you remember the old windshild screens that had printed in big words NEED HELP CALL POLICE. Okay I took that to mean that when it was in a window with the words  facing out, it meant that person was in trouble and  wanted someone to call the police.  But a good friend took it entirely different.  She took it as an advertisment for the police department  NEED HELP?   CALL POLICE.  Same words, but we each saw it entirely different.  Four simple words, but seen entirely differently.

My vet has never told me which brand of food to buy for Shadow.
 
When he diagnosed my cat with diminished kidney function, he recommended Purina NF because it's worked for his other patients. They do advise against ( and not pushy ) feeding  bones, especially small ones. There is a classification of small animal care called a CVN, certified vetrinary nutritionist. Some of them, after finishing school, have gone to work for food companies. Some companies, such as "mid-grade" Nutro have a vet in charge of nutrition.
 
Maybe many vets are waiting to see how these holistic brands do, since they've had geriatric clients on the traditional dog foods for a long time. I don't know. My vet has been a vet for as long as I have been alive and I've been over the hill and picking up speed. I think he knows a few things. And, ultimately, the control of the animal is with the owner. If asked for advice, he will give it. Otherwise, he'll keep his mouth shut and simply address whatever issue at hand.
 

Same with my vet.  He has never pushed SD on me at all.  When we couldn't get the poundage off KayCee after several months of trying, he suggested we put her on SD r/d and that the pounds came off.  When she dropped back down to a neat 70, he said she was perfect weight and at MY REQUEST, he suggested Purina Fit & Trim (he knew she had been on the Purina Dog Chow & the other dogs were on urina) and it has kept the weight off her.  He never suggested any brand of food for Buck all these years until his kidney infection came up 2 1/2 weeks ago and then he said put him on the SD k/d.  Oh, he does not carry any type of Purina, only the SD, so he is sending me from buying food from him or buying at the grocery store or the feed store. 

EDITED  At one time I had 2000 posts as I have been here almost 3 years.  Wonder what happened to all those posts?

ORIGINAL: dvet

JoJo the Pogo--does this mean I should not express my opinions and ideas ???

No I didn't mean that.  I should have stated my self differently.  I've been on this forum for 1 month now and have never had anyone recommend a food out of the grocery store.  It suprised me - that's all.

I do know 2 vets that will not feed anything with by-products or anything in which meat is not the first ingredient.  One is good client of mine.  We hold nutrition talks.  She has even said that many vets are very ignorant when it comes to nutrition.  She did say that most veterinary schools allow vets to specialize.  You specialize in that one topic and learn only the basics about the rest.

As far as problems I've had with grocery foods, when I rescued my little guy he had horrible ear infections and was very difficult to house train.  He was being fed kibbles and bits, which made him poop so much no wonder he was hard to house train.  I switched him to Nutro Natural Choice and within a month the ear infections were gone and house training was going much smoother. 

I also worked at a pet supplies store for three years. I never told anyone what to feed their dog unless they asked or unless their dog's health problem sounded related to food issues. One time a vet who had heard about us recommended this cat food he never heard of came in acting like a customer.  I actually convinced him that Felidae was better than Science Diet. He was shocked by the ingredient difference.  After all, at one time Science Diet contained much better ingredients then in does today.   He even came back a few months later to tell me how great his cat was doing.

dvet--we do exist! lol  I am a third year graduate student to get my doctorate in companion animal nutrition 

And in response to dvet, animal nutritionists do exist and it bothers me that vets take a "We're the next best thing" approach.

 
I honestly think this is a little unfair.

I don;t think dogs are classified as carnivores because they are equipted to digest vegetable material, ie in the wild eatinag the stomach contents of there herbiverous prey..I think--and i can be wriong' but it think they are classified as obligate omnivours...

Duvet shouldnt you know the answer to this very simple question,if you are a vet.

NO dogs are not equipted(sic) to digest veg material,it must be mushed or cooked for them first before they gain any nutritional value.

I looked at your profile but cant find where you live,May i ask if english is your first language?

Okay, now that's just mean

Okay, now that's just mean

Jojo which part ? I didnt intend it to be mean at all.   These were just some questions that had been playing on my mind,and if you dont ask,you dont know....

Companies like Purina and Science Diet are showing images of plump chickens, whole vegetables, and brown rice in their marketing and on the packages. In reality, the ingredients are really chicken by-products and brewers rice. To me, this is deception in advertising, and clearly plays on people wanting the best for their pets. If by-products and leftover cereal grains are truly the best for my pet, then just come out and say it. The thing is that I know and they know that that isn't the case. 

When you see a food that says things like "liver flavor" or "chicken flavor", you have to ask yourself why that is better than having the actual ingredient there in the first place. I know I'll see replies from people who are sympathetic with the large food companies about how they've done all this research and found that this is what most dogs will do the best on. My response is they never conducted that research. The research they conducted is what food can we make that comes the closest to giving a pet complete nutrition while falling in line the best with our vertical integration style of business.

I don't think Purina or any of them are big bad evil companies and that companies like Eagle Pack are there because they love my dog. I do, however, think that companies like Eagle Pack have to prove to me that their product is worth more than what I can get at Kroger, and that keeps them somewhat honest.

 
 Very well said and I agree. I remember a thread a few months ago where papillon said that the courses she took stressed that dogs need a meat based diet so I asked why if that's the case do companies like Pedigree and Science Diet use corn as the first ingredient? She responded by saying it's because they want to make a product that dogs can live on for the lowest cost possible.