Opinions of website info on dog food

 

Just for a quick comparison:

Wysong Kibble:   1 lb 3 oz for $16.95

Ingredients: [color=#339966]Beef and Chicken; Beef and Chicken Liver; Ground Bone, Flax Seed, Ground Brown Rice, Ground Oat Groats, Ground Wheat, Ground Corn, Cane Molasses, Tomatoes, Sun-Cured Alfalfa, Apple, Blueberry, Sweet Potato, Celery, Beets, Parsley, Lettuce, Watercress, Spinach, Carrots, Green Beans, Potato, Chlorella, Barley Grass Powder, Wheat Grass Powder, Organic Mung Bean Sprouts, Organic Quinoa Sprouts, Organic Millet Sprouts, Artichoke, Dried Seaweed, Milk Calcium, Coral Calcium, Dicalcium Phosphate, Fish Oil, Coconut Oil, Yeast Culture, Sesame Seeds, Taurine, DL-Methionine, Sea Salt, Garlic, Black Pepper, Artichoke, Dried Enterococcus faecium Fermentation Product, Bacillus subtilis Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus plantarum Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus casei Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus lactis Fermentation Product, Dried Saccharomyces cerevisiae Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus oryzae Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus niger Fermentation Product, Natural Extractives of Sage and Rosemary, Choline Chloride, Ascorbic Acid, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Manganese Proteinate, Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Copper Proteinate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin A Acetate, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement.[/color]
Analysis: Min. Protein 29.16%, Min. Fat 18%, Max. Fiber 3.24%, Moisture 10.0%
 
* Muscle meat is listed as the first ingredient by the PRE-cooked weight. Because meat is 70% water, after cooking that meat is no longer the primary ingredient because it has shrunk to 1/4 of it's original amount. So actually there may be more brown rice than meat. They also list NO nutrient dense specific meat meals .
 
* There's no good reason to have wheat or corn , they are allergen-prone ingredients .
 
* Cane Molasses - Sugar or sweetener is an absolutely unnecessary ingredient in pet foods, added to make the product more attractive. Continuous intake can promote hypoglycemia, obesity, nervousness, cataracts, tooth decay, arthritis and allergies. Pets also get addicted to foods that contain sugars, so it can be a tough piece of work to make them eat something healthier.

*Sea Salt - While salt is a necessary mineral, it is also generally present in sufficient quantities in the ingredients pet foods include. Just like for humans, too much sodium intake is unhealthy for animals. In poor quality foods it is often used in large amounts to add flavor and make the food more interesting.
 
*Where is the FAT in this product ?? Some form of fat either Chicken fat or an oil source should be within the top 10 ingredients.Fat is what provides linoleic acid, Omega 3 & 6 fatty acids necessary for healthy skin and coat. They only use fish oil and coconut oil and it's so far down the list of ingredients it can't be there in a quantity enough to provide the beneficial fatty acids needed. Then it doesn't tell you if the coconut oil is cold-pressed (unrefined) or hydrogenated. Hydrogenated oils are BAD NEWS because they contain trans fats.
 
 
 
Timberwolf Organics :  16.5 lbs for $29.95
 
Ingredients:
Lamb, Salmon Meal, Lamb Meal, Salmon, Whole Ground Oats, Whole Ground Barley, Whole Ground Brown Rice, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and rosemary extract), Whole Ground Flaxseed, Unrefined Walnut Oil, Watercress, Spinach, Celery, Parsley, Fennel Seed, Dried Goat's Milk, Atlantic Kelp, Alfalfa Leaf, Wild Salmon Oil, Cottage Cheese, Potassium Chloride, Rosemary, Apples, Cinnamon, Thyme, Dried Carrots, Anise Seed, Ginger Root, Basil, Dried Mint, Choline Chloride, Lecithin, Probiotics: (Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Lactobacillus Casei, Lactobacillus Lactis, Bacillus Bifidum, Streptococcus Diacetilactis, Bacillus Subtillus), Taurine, Mixed Tocopherols (a source of vitamin E), Lysine, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Thiamine, Methionine, Carnitine, Niacin, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Iodine Proteinate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Biotin, Folic Acid, Pyridoxine (a source of vitamin B6), Copper Proteinate, Selenium Proteinate, Cobalt Proteinate, Papain, Yucca Schidigera Extract.
PROTEIN: 28%
FAT: 18%
FIBER: 3%
MOISTURE: 9%
ASH: 6.9%
Kcal/kg: 3,920
OMEGA-6 FATTY ACIDS: 3.8%
OMEGA-3 FATTY ACIDS: 1.3%
CALCIUM: 1.8%
PHOSPHOROUS: 1.4
VITAMIN A: 22,000 IU/KG
VITAMIN D: 1,200 IU/KG
VITAMIN E: 350 IU/KG
COPPER: 16mg/KG



*Timberwolf guarantees  10 lbs of meat ( muscle meat, organs and meat/bone meal ) for each 20 lbs of kibble ( AFTER extrusion ).

* They also use up to 3 sources of Omega 3 & 6 fatty acids. This formula uses Chicken fat, Unrefined Walnut oil and Salmon Oil, 2 of which are in the top 10 ingredients.

What makes Wysong worth almost $20 /lb ???  Just because they like to toot their own horn and bash everyone else ? I've read plenty on their site and alot of what they say is contrary to what  other canine nutrition experts say.

I don't agree with this person's opinion of Wysong.  She also advocates feeding Kirkland and Diamond...even though recent investigations state that Diamond ( the parent corp for Kirkland ) has failed I don't know how many tests for quality control, accepting infected grain shipments and a bunch of other violations.

I've been studying all of these foods and comparing ingredients for a long time and Timberwolf still comes out on top for quality of ingredients used and price even though their Customer Service really sucks. They're the only food on the market that uses as much meat as they do, that has absolutely NO garbage ingredients, uses only top quality premium ingredients, no refined grains or oils, nothing that is genetically modified or engineered like CANOLA oil for example that at least 8 out of 10 other super premiums use in their foods.  And TO doesn't have puppy formulas either but there are feeding suggestions for puppies which include feeding puppies more and adding other ingredients to the specially formulated mixtures ( ie, eggs, organ meats, muscle meats, cottage cheese etc. ) Also by rotating formulas it prevents any dog from getting too much of any one thing and balances out protein, fats and other essential nutrients.

Wysong is just soooo ridiculously expensive. And corn? Blech!

As written by Linda Arndt, on her Great Dane Lady website:
 
First, corn is one of the best natural sources of coat and skin conditioners like Omega 6. It has an overall digestibility is 90% and carbohydrate digestibility is 99%. In the instance of [linkhttp://www.eaglepack.com/]Eagle Dog Foods[/link] use of whole corn, Eagle grinds whole corn fresh for their products and they do not use any genetically engineered corn. It is bought from local farmers and no pesticides are applied from the day the seed is planted until the corn is picked. High quality whole corn is an excellent carbohydrate that is "used" as a carbohydrate source, not counted as protein source and it is not listed first on the ingredient panel. The fact is, legitimate research shows whole corn, to be considered very low on the list of foods that cause allergic reactions.

Frankly I don't think this woman knows what she's talking about. The use of corn in dog food is as a cheap source of protein rather than getting it where it should come from... MEAT. There are also much better sources to get carbs from... whole brown rice being one of them, millet being another. Both FAR superior to corn and posing no allergenic threat to most dogs.

Frankly I think she knows exactly what she is talking about.  She is a canine nutritional consultant, besides raising many generations of Danes and other dogs. In fact  here is her introduction on her website:


INTRODUCTION: [color=#000000]The past 33 years as a professional breeder, I have devoted my efforts to research, feed trials, writing and lecturing on nutritionally caused bone diseases, and the effects of high calorie diets on the growth of large and giant breeds. I have numerous published articles on these topics and other major health issues that effect our companion animals. These articles have been published in purebreed magazines here and overseas as well as in the DaneWorld Magazine, The Great Dane Reporter, and numerous animal health magazines. [/color]From 1989-1995 I conducted a personal National Bone Disease Survey of over 5200 Great Dane cases of HOD, OCD and Pano. This body of information gave breeders a better understanding of the causes, prevention and management of Developmental Orthopedic Diseases in large and giant breeds. From my research I have developed the [linkhttp://www.greatdanelady.com/articles/adult_feeding_program.htm]Blackwatch Adult Feed Program [/link], [linkhttp://www.greatdanelady.com/articles/puppy_feed_program_and_guidelines.htm]Blackwatch Puppy Feed Program and Guidelines.[/link]
 
Sharon, you say:
The use of corn in dog food is as a cheap source of protein rather than getting it where it should come from... MEAT.
GDL says the same thing. But of course no one is talking about corn as a protein source except you. 
 

Another corn debate!!!!  Tony, where are you?!
 
My thought is that putting Merrick's and Wysong ahead of TO, SG, Pinnacle, and Natura is very questionable.

I'm back, can't miss out on a good corn debate, the reason for using corn, wheat, and soy in dogfood is because they provide a completely different amino acid profile that many meats are lacking and so they compliment one another.  It is another falicy that you want all of your protien to come from meat.
 
The net protein utilization is profoundly affected by the limiting amino acid content (the essential amino acid found in the smallest quantity in the foodstuff), and somewhat affected by salvage of essential amino acids in the body. It is therefore a good idea to mix foodstuffs that have different weaknesses in their essential amino acid distributions. This limits the loss of [linkhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen]nitrogen[/link] through [linkhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deamination]deamination[/link] and increases overall net protein utilization.




Protein source
Limiting amino acid

[linkhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheat]Wheat[/link]
[linkhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysine]lysine[/link]

[linkhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rice]Rice[/link]
[linkhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysine]lysine[/link] and [linkhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threonine]threonine[/link]

[linkhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maize]Maize[/link]
[linkhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysine]lysine[/link] and [linkhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tryptophan]tryptophan[/link]

[linkhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulses]Pulses[/link]
[linkhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methionine]methionine[/link]

[linkhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beef]Beef[/link]
[linkhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methionine]methionine[/link] and [linkhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cysteine]cysteine[/link]
 
Although protein is considered necessary for healthy dogs, it is not actually protein that is used, but rather the amino acids of the protein. A protein molecule contains thousands of amino acids. Digestion breaks down the protein molecules into amino acids. The amino acids are then absorbed and distributed by the bloodstream to the body cells, which rebuild the amino acids into body components.
The quality of protein depends to a large extent upon its amino acid content. The body can make some amino acids, while others, called essential amino acids, must be supplied by the diet. Ten amino acids considered essential to dogs are histidine, isoleucine, leucine, arginine, methionine, phenylalanine, threonine, tryptophan, valine and lysine. Diets that furnish a proper balance of essential amino acids have quality protein.
The absence of even one amino acid will influence how dogs utilize the rest. Protein deficiency symptoms, which are actually amino acids deficiency symptoms, include depressed appetite, poor growth, loss of weight, rough and dull haircoat, impaired immune function, irregular estrus, lower reproductive performance and reduced milk production.
Dog foods providing the proper amounts of essential amino acids in an available form supply good-quality protein. The combination of two or more protein sources in a dog food generally provides a balanced amino acid profile. A balanced ratio of plant protein with another plant or animal protein can provide all of the essential amino acids dogs need.
 

I won't get into the debate about whether or not this woman has her head stuck where the sun don't shine.....however I will share my experience.
 
When Thor and Sheba came home my vet recommended Purina large breed puppy formula.  Thor especially grew REALLY fast.  Subsequent pups have been weaned to Innova and have all experienced SLOW AND STEADY growth.    So, in my experience Innova is superior for large breed pups.
 
Tyler was out of my home for SEVEN weeks and during that time was fed Pedigree....he grew far too quickly and suffers pano now.  So all that corn was VERY detrimental to him.  I cannot agree that Innova is too rich for pups.  However, my vet does recommend that my fosters going to homes that will NOT also home cook be put on Innova large breed puppy instead of the all life stages formula.

Tyler was out of my home for SEVEN weeks and during that time was fed Pedigree....he grew far too quickly and suffers pano now.  So all that corn was VERY detrimental to him.
Glenda, but are you sure it is just this one ingredient that made that difference?

Wrong. Totally wrong. 1) animal sources of protein have complete and balanced profiles of amino acids. [linkhttp://www.vegsoc.org/info/protein.html]http://www.vegsoc.org/info/protein.html[/link] 2) dogs have a lot of trouble digesting soy, grains, and vegetables. Most of their amino acid content ends up in the pooper-scooper. Best to feed dogs a diet based on meat.
 

Dyan, nope, I'm not SURE, take it to the bank SURE, but, my vet agrees that feeding such a VERY poor quality food caused the growth spurt that caused his problems.  I'm not putting ANY corn down...but read a bag of Pedigree and you'll see that it's primarily corn.

Yep, Pedigree is not one of the better food, for sure! And corn in the FIRST ingredient in it, along with meat (not specific meat) and chicken by products..among other yucky things.

I find it interesting that GDL who has raised generations of large/giant breeds and has studied food trials over several years recommends the formulas of Eagle that DO contain corn (certainly not as main ingredient)   She says:
This is the ONLY dog foods ever tested on giant breeds and it was done on several litters before it became available to the public. It has the longest track record for giant breeds/Danes of any food on the market, 12 years. I directed the feed trials on this food 14 years ago as well as the Large and Giant Puppy food feed trials in 2002 so I know these foods work.
 
I am not making a point about other brands of dog foods, I am just pointing out that Eagle themselves has other formulas that do not contain corn, and she doesn't list them as recommended for large/giant breed puppies. I thought that was very interesting. 

When I was at the derm vet last week, we got into a discussion about corn and it's reputation for being high on the allergen list.  She said that there has been no scientific basis for the claim and the only information that indicates it is from a dog food company (years ago) who came out with a food free from corn.  She said it was a marketing ploy that has become what some folks consider to be factual information.  She lectures to other vets and said she routinely asks them how many of their patients who've been tested for allergies actually show an allergy to corn and she hardly ever has anyone raise their hand.  Anyway - not posting to defend corn, but I did find it very interesting.

Coming from a saved article is this statement:
  However, numerous studies conclude that "food" allergies are very rare in dogs and almost impossible to detect through clinical testing (ie:RAST, ELSIA, Intradermal Skin Testing) (see "[linkhttp://www.beowulfs.com/magazine/allergies.htm]Food Allergies in Canines: Behind the Hype[/link]" for more information).   The only proven way to find a food allergy is to remove your animal from all medication, feed whole, natural foods not usually eaten by that animal, then introduce foods back into the diet one by one.   Even with this method, food allergies are extremely rare.  Of 200 confirmed cases, corn caused only 3.
The problem with the corn conversation is that if you post some of the printed statements about studies, then many people find fault with the study or who performed it or something.
You know for me, I find myself always defending corn and I read a lot about it, and of course on the message boards, a lot against it.  Most people are just "jumping on the band wagon though!"  It seems that if the word corn is ever brought up on any thread, there is always at least one person if not two or three making a blurb. I am sure many of these people while reading ingredients put a package down as soon as they get to corn, and it doesn't matter WHERE it is in the ingredient list, such as I would with the ingredient MEAT!    But for me, food such as Eagle Pack is recommended for my breed by someone who has raised many generations of my breed, that means everything in the whole world.  It contains corn. Great Dane Lady has other foods on her recommended list also and I don't know how many of those brands have corn, if any, but I am sticking with the one that works for our Danes, and it just kind of makes me cringe a little every time the conversation comes up.