Removed amaranth from Ocean Blue?

Yes they moved everything and are still settling in. I was told that they had 'ironed all the kinks out' so to speak , but it doesn't seem likely. There are plenty of 'kinks' still there to be ironed out.

 Sharon, I'll send a letter to them about the amaranth too. If I hear anything, I'll post it here.

I bought one bag of Ocean Blue, and I must say that although Bailey doesn't care for it, my CAT loves it!

my CAT loves it!

 
I hope you're not letting your cat eat it.  It's totally unbalanced nutritionally for a cat's needs.  Serengeti has 38% protein where Ocean Blue only has 26%. The kcals/kg are lower too , 3675 as opposed to 3980.  
 
 I take it your dog doesn't like fish.  Mine love fish but I haven't rotated them to the OB yet. They're doing Black Forest this week. I'll tell you though, my cats love the Serengeti.

myorganicpets

I hope you're not letting your cat eat it.  It's totally unbalanced nutritionally for a cat's needs.  Serengeti has 38% protein where Ocean Blue only has 26%. The kcals/kg are lower too , 3675 as opposed to 3980.  

I take it your dog doesn't like fish.  Mine love fish but I haven't rotated them to the OB yet. They're doing Black Forest this week. I'll tell you though, my cats love the Serengeti.

I feed the cat Serengeti. I had to put up a baby gate to keep the dog away from it. It would be hard to keep the cat away from the dog's food. Since the dog doesn't like Ocean Blue anyway it is a moot point.

         Sharon, Do you know how mant kilocalories per cup the Ocean Blue is?  I thought it was about 367, since it is 3675 per kilogram,  but Jessie's gaining a little weight on it so I am probably wrong.

Well I'm not Sharon, but I know Ocean Blue is around 551/cup.

The formula for figuring it is 3675/10=367.5*1.5=551.25
(edited to make formula shorter)

Or you could just check [linkhttp://forums.dogfoodproject.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=dogfood&Number=191&Searchpage=3&Main=187&Words=ocean+blue&topic=&Search=true#Post191]here.[/link]

HTH []

By my calculations and their listing of the kcal/kgm (3675), I come up with approximately 417 kcal/cup (4oz)

   Thanks Kelly.[] I was using a formula I found on Merrick's website, but it didn't seem to be right because the only thing that could have caused Jessie to gain weight is the change in food. I should have checked Mordanna's board sooner.

Funny.. why is it they always want to eat each other's food ? I am always finding my JRT eating the cat's food. The other dogs will eat it too. My lab used to steal the cat's dish all the time, take the food into the livingroom and eat it all. Finally I had to put the cats in another part of the house so the dog wouldn't be into their food.
 
I think my dogs will like the Ocean Blue. They LOVE fish. I feed them mahi, tuna, salmon, whiting, mackeral and trout all the time.  Yesterday I made them a snack from cream cheese, tuna, broccoli and carrots. Whipped it all up and stuffed their empty marrow bones w/it. They love it.

I am anxiously awaiting Timberowlf's response to amaranth inclusion.
 
I have questioned them via email and not received a response.
 
It was my understanding that grain amaranth was used, not leaf, which is technically not a grain so food would still be considered grain free but, again, I never received a response from Timberwolf.
 
AAFCO feeding trials don't have anything to do with approval of ingredient listings.  Feeding trials replace laboratory testing for nutritional adequacy - a way for manufacturer's to prove their food is adequate without having to necessarily be at the nutritional standard set by AAFCO.  AAFCO also does not inspect the label of each and every manufacturer unless they do an inspection.  Typically, labels are regulated more at a state level - Dept. of Agriculture and must approve labels and contents in accordance to AAFCO regulations.  However, as Solid Gold stated, if a ingredient is close to an approved ingredient, it may get passed through the department of agriculture especially if it is presented by a reputable company who has done feeding trials.  This does not mean that the particular ingredient has FDA or AAFCO approval for use in pet food.  This is probably why we're seeing some companies remove it from their products.

Let's look at everything shady about Timberwolf:

--Can't get answers to questions
--When they do answer questions, it's not a straight (or polite) answer
--Mixed kibble types in bags
--Inconsistent types of packaging (some foil, some plain plastic, some generic blank bags with ingredient and name stickers)
--Inconsistent ingredients printed on packages
--Packaging food in wrong bags (cat food in dog food bag)
--Changing website ingredients while continuing to sell old formulas
--Site ingredients seem to be wrong (dog and cat food are identical)
--Not announcing formula changes
--Shipping bags with no dates
--Shipping cat food in misprinted cat food bags with bison as the first ingredient

In short, you can't tell when ordering which ingredients you may be getting, and the bag it comes in may not have the correct ingredients either.

This does not seem like a reputable company to do business with. I know that they got too big too fast, but at this point, I think they're actually defrauding their customers in the name of profit. They're basically telling us what we want to hear and selling whatever they make in whatever packaging they can get their hands on.

IMHO, I think that they need to be investigated.

   I don't know if they need to be investigated, but I am seriously wondering about how well they supervise the production of their food. Jessie's food did come in a very nice looking foil bag with a use by date stamped on the back, but they have horrible customer service, and with all the other issues that you point out, especially the removal of amaranth from their online site, I am not 100% certain that their food is everything they claim for it to be. If they're not carefully supervising ingredients and testing for things like molds, who knows how safe their food is? With bags being misslabelled and different kibble in the same bag, the question of quality control becomes a real issue. I love the ingredients listed on their website but I'm beginning to wonder what's actually in the food.

Thank you, Lovenewfies! You are so corret about the AAFCO. They only establish the regulations and it's up to USDA to enforce them. With the lack of enforcement, companies can manipulate the ingredients at will. There are not nearly enough officials to survey all the companies and their products they are producing. Extensive testing would have to be done (and at great cost) to prove the products used are what's on the label. The larger companies can use this tactic and then IF they get caught, they will just get a slap on the wrist and told to "stop it".
 
A product is only as good as the companies customer service!

Re: Timberwolf....

At least none of you are stuck w/2000lbs of it sitting in the middle of your diningroom ! I've got 8 cases of  Serengeti in the old bags, 8 cases of Wilderness Elk and 16 generic bags of Serengeti ( silver w/an ingredient sticker ).  Yep...I'll have to admit I was really PO'd and wrote them saying I didn't appreciate their 'bait and switch' tactics.  They wrote back saying it wasn't 'bait and switch' and that the packaging plant did this all on their own w/o their knowledge. Yeah, right.

By the way... I was reading up more on Amaranth and there are other grains that also contain the same tannins and saponins...quinoa being one of them.  But they are NOT toxic once they've been SOAKED, SPROUTED or COOKED ( cooking destroys saponins ).  Amaranth 'grain' is actually a SEED. That's why it can't be harvested w/commercial  machinery. Even it if was the seeds that are being used...there are dozens and dozens of species of amaranth and we have no idea which it is.  But I'll tell you...    almost EVERY holistic food I looked at yesterday  had amaranth in it.